[OT] What is WRONG with people?

[Pillars of Hercules]

Peace in our time

Oh, and RX Diem, you're right - there are no good guys and no bad guys.

I'm sure the Dalai Lama and the good people of Tibet were thrilled to learn that the "People's Liberation Army" of Communist China just needed some good herbal tea to find their "inner center" or something.

Neville Chamberlain simply assured his staff that Munich was a good idea because it would help Hitler to get over his failures as an artist, which were keping him from finding his "happy place."

 

[R.X.DIEM]

Re: Peace in our time

Oh, and RX Diem, you're right - there are no good guys and no bad guys.

I'm sure the Dalai Lama and the good people of Tibet were just at peace with themselves while the "People's Liberation Army" of Red China just needed some good herbal tea to find their "inner center" or something.

They are at peace with themselves. They also struggle for the liberation of their country. Is that a puzzle for you?

 

[William Ronald]

Well a person can be at peace or not at peace with themselves. However, I have to judge people by their words and actions.

I have seen real examples of good in the world as well as evil.

I believe all people have a fundamental right to be treated with respect. Rudeness essential is an act of claiming that you are more important than another.

There are different ways to combat rudeness, as well as evil. Sometimes a pacifistic approach works. At other times, more forceful measures are needed. For example, Gandhi's efforts to free India from colonial rule probably would not have worked if Hitler's Germany or Stalin's U.S.S.R. was the colonial power.

I do respect people's right to different opinions. However, I believe that my rights end where yours begin.

People, let us try to respect each other despite our differences. So far, only one person in this thread has supported rudeness. Unless he was joking.

 

[R.X.DIEM]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karma

Throughout the history of mankind, we have seen that the written word has amazing powers - simply dismissing them as meaningless beyond what we invest in them ourselves ignores the fact that many people know how to use the written word to uplift and inspire or downtrod and horrify.

The internet is a wondrous invention, and many truly good people use it. But, with that comes another element, those who would do harm in some way. Being angry and taking a stand against the bad guys is a good thing, no matter where they appear.

So much beauty and so much filth. Both could be used and has been to describe most of humanities most profound writings. I cannot dismiss any of it as meaningless. But if I'm moved or affected by any of it, it is because I allow it to move me. Again don't miss quote me! I do not dismiss mankinds written bounty. I was just saying that in dealing with life day to day, the words of others, foolish, angery, stupid, happy etc should only bother you if you let it. Also, to take a stand against anything doesn't require a person to be angery, it requires a person to be right.

 

[Pillars of Hercules]

Re: Re: Peace in our time

They are at peace with themselves. They also struggle for the liberation of their country. Is that a puzzle for you?

Bah - the point was that the invasion of Tibet and the rise of fascism were objectively evil acts perpetrated by bad guys. I thought your point was that there were no good guys and no bad guys - by which of course you really mean that there is no true right and no true wrong, a point on which the good Colonel and I disagree with you.

Just pointing out historical examples where, all spin aside, there were in fact good and bad guys.

 

[Talvisota]

Suggested reading

Bowling Alone (I forget who wrote)
The Lexus and the Olive Tree (J Friedman)
Trust: Social Virtues and the Creation of Capital )uyama)
The Great Disruption )uyama)

All of what is spoken above is a hot topic in modern socio-economic lit.

And if you think people are rude in the US, drop by my place.

 

[Talvisota]

Hey, all I am trying to do is write a guy's last name and I get smileys.

It is spelled F-u-k-u-y-a-m-a

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Karma

So much beauty and so much filth. Both could be used and has been to describe most of humanities most profound writings. I cannot dismiss any of it as meaningless. But if I'm moved or affected by any of it, it is because I allow it to move me. Again don't miss quote me! I do not dismiss mankinds written bounty. I was just saying that in dealing with life day to day, the words of others, foolish, angery, stupid, happy etc should only bother you if you let it. Also, to take a stand against anything doesn't require a person to be angery, it requires a person to be right.

Well, it works for me.

One of the things I like about the Taoists or the Buddhists is that they don't go around trying to "prove" their way is the right way, or lecture others about the right or wrong way to do things. Wise folk like Chuang-Tzu or Lao-Tzu or Lieh-Tzu teach by example, either in the way they act or by a story. I like it, but at some point it takes someone with a head of steam to actually get something accomplished.

Also, I didn't misquote you. I interpreted what you were saying through the filter of my own views. I think you were trying to lecture me about the right way and the wrong way to do things. Regardless, anyone who's been on the internet for any length of time knows that there are many people who do, in fact, desensitize themselves to what others write - and proceed to stir up trouble. Everyone out there in cyberspace are just small glowing letters on a monitor; they can't be hurt because they're not real - to those people whom we've called "jackasses." I don't feel that way; people are people, and even if I can't see them or share real space with them, I know they're real. I may get irritated with some, and get into arguments, but I really don't go out of my way to hurt anyone. There are plenty of people who do go out of their way to hurt others or get them angry. It's fun to them, because they have divested themselves of any empathy for others simply because they can get away with being insensitive - hey, I'll never meet these people, they think.

Anyway, this is just the way I feel about it. You know, you've been lecturing me about not taking to heart what others write; maybe you should do the same. What was it about what I wrote that got you irritated enough to reply? If you had been following the peaceful way, you'd have simply ignored what I wrote. I'm not trying to be disrespectful, truly. I just think that there is a dichotomy between what you're saying and what you're doing. In other words, you aren't practicing what you preach. But, really, what does it matter what I think? It doesn't matter. I'm not particularly successful or wise. All I have are strong opinions which I try to defend, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Even so, I'm simply a stranger who manifests as posts on an internet message board. That's all. If you like something I say, cool. If not, that's OK too. You may choose to reply, and I may argue, but I probably won't change my mind anytime soon, and I don't expect you to do so, either. It's basic human interaction. But I'm always aware that I'm dealing with real people, who can be hurt or helped by the written word. Obviously people on the internet, particularly message boards and chat rooms, crave such interaction, and feel it is just as valid as any other interaction - otherwise they wouldn't be online, where that really is the only type of interaction.

Anyway, I've gotta be toddling along now...other threads to lurk on...good night/morning/evening/afternoon, folks...

 

[R.X.DIEM]

Re: Re: Re: Peace in our time

Bah - the point was that the invasion of Tibet and the rise of fascism were objectively evil acts perpetrated by bad guys. I thought your point was that there were no good guys and no bad guys - by which of course you really mean that there is no true right and no true wrong, a point on which the good Colonel and I disagree with you.

Just pointing out historical examples where, all spin aside, there were in fact good and bad guys.

You knew the point I was getting at! The arguement on good and evil is moot. And a poor focus on my original Posting! Doing nothing when something bad happens is bad. Does that boil it down simple enough for you? About posting about Karma in the first place. Sometimes it's a little exhausting to hear or see Karma used in such a petty way. As if Karma was some kind of Cop or police trying to catch up to all that do wrong and punish them. "Don't worry, all their bad karma will catch up with them sooner or later an boy would I like to be there when that happens." Karma is not a police officer or a credit card. And no you don't get frequent flyer miles if you use it alot! I apologize If I came off a little preachy. I am a poor example of a Buddhist. A work in progress.

 

[JohnNephew]

I am amazed to find how many people who are so harsh on the outside are so bitter and vulnerable on the inside.

Years ago, when the internet was young (and so was my company), I got some very negative e-mail from a customer. It was not merely complaining, but rude and abusive. I don't even remember what product it was about, or what the complaint was. Well, anyhow, I wrote a reply that was -- well, I don't remember exactly what my reply was. But the interesting thing was that I got a letter back from the guy, this complete stranger in Sweden, apologizing. He said he'd just broken up with his girlfriend and was having a terrible week and realized that he just unloaded a lot of negativity onto me -- a complete stranger -- just in an effort to try to vent. And then he realized that I was a human being out there on a different continent, working and trying to make a living, and he felt awful.

I remember that sometimes when I read really harsh remarks on discussion boards and product reviews, when someone tears into a creator as though they were responsible for genocide or something for publishing a work not to this reader's liking. While I have sympathy for the person being harshed on, I have sympathy too for the person venting bile...I wonder what awful things have happened to them lately, or what scars are on their soul, that they are compelled to be hurtful.

I honestly don't think most people are bad. We do tend to be a bit shortsighted, and ignorant. I suppose those are traits that are selected for evolutionarily (people who stop and think about all the consequences don't breed as early or as often, I imagine), but it is possible for us to overcome them, and to help each other do the same now and then.