Other than a custom spell...

[BriarMonkey]

I know you said that you didn't want a custom spell, but I have to ask, is this being looked at from the point of view of a player, or a DM?

I ask because as a DM, you can Rule 0 it and have it be a [gypsy|witch|prophetic|etc.] curse or something of similar taint. Of course, you can relate it to known abilities by way of curse spells, a limited wish, miracle, etc.

As a player though, I think you may have to go the route of something like a limited wish.

 

[Greenfield]

Part of it was curiosity, part was desire to use it in a game.

I wanted a non-custom spell, as a DM, because that allows the players to research and deal with it. No screams that I was being unfair. I mean, a Dm can invent anything he or she wants, but that doesn't mean that they're balanced or well thought out.

Finding a spell within the existing rules implies that it's seen at least a little play testing. Probably.

The "curiosity" factor was actually one of wonder. WOTC has been consistently outlawing or eviscerating the various shape changing spells from their RPGA events since 3.0, and pretty much castrated them all in 4.0.

I was just wondering if anyone over there had aver tried to emulate the spell ability as it actually appears in classic fantasy literature. From what I'm hearing here, the answer is a loud and resounding "no".

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Baleful Polymorph + Contingent Dispel Magic?

MY suggestion with this would be to build in the dispelling effect into the original casting. Set the conditions for breaking frog-ness at the get go.

Mechanically, this in my mind is how the classic farytale frog-prince curse works. Practically, no one would cast a D&D spell with a built in way to undo it. Magic in D&D simply isn't that forgiving or reversible as classic farytales.

 

[Dandu]

I was just wondering if anyone over there had aver tried to emulate the spell ability as it actually appears in classic fantasy literature. From what I'm hearing here, the answer is a loud and resounding "no".

Why would Bestow Curse, Greater not work?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Today, 02:19 AM #7 (permalink)
FriedaTakaha
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[Samloyal23]

How about creating a metamagic feat that builds a contingency into a spell to end its effect so you can cast the spell as though it was lower level? That way you could cast Baleful Polymorph as though it was a Greater Bestow Curse spell...

 

[Greenfield]

I'm trying to do this as strictly cannon as possible.

One approach that would be "strictly cannon" would be a one-shot item with a limitation.

Build it under the "cursed item" rules so that when she eats the apple, or whatever... And the limitation is that the curse can be broken without spell use.

The problem is that the "cursed item rules" aren't really rules. There's nothing even slightly rigorous about them in 3.5. They're more or less an acknowledgment that such things can be done, somehow, sort of.

As some of you may have noticed, I'm kind of a rules guy. I like things a whole lot better when I can point to a published rule, one that they had access to, to back up my decisions as a DM. It isn't always fair or balanced, but it does make a lot of decisions hard to argue.

 

[Samloyal23]

This is sort of a gap in the rules, curses are not really "constructed" in D&D. There is no kit for building one that I am aware of...

 

[Wyvernhand]

As i said, use Mark of Justice as a template. If you are a controls guy (in the mechanical sense) think of the Mark as a relay or other contactor. Instead of a signal activating the curse, swap the wires and have the curse normally active and the signal breaks the curse. From a mechanics PoV, they are nearly identical, just executed different. Since its based on MoJ, you have exact rules for how it interacts with other established rules like Break Enchantment or Remove Curse. Since the final effect you want is a bit higher, maybe raise it up a level or 2, or require it to be Heightened to a level 1 higher than the trigger spell. That makes it more versatile and compatable with any number of spells rather than Bestow Curse. It is outside of the rules, but it relies on extrapolation of existing rules which makes it slightly more legitimate than straight up homebrew.

 

[Greenfield]

In other words, invent a new spell. Which is exactly what I don't want to do.

Here's the thing, if the answer to my question is, "no, there is no existing suitable spell", then that's the answer, and that's fine.

Right now I'm going to look into Bestow Curse, Greater. It's my best lead, currently.

Thanks for all the help.