Out of Combat Casting: Lower Level, More Power.

[a-d]

Has anyone heard, seen, or done spell research in-game which makes a virtual copy of a spell which takes a standard or swift action to cast, and then made a near twin of it which takes longer to cast or requires more to up the spells power and/or reduce it's spell casting requirements?

Change casting a standard action spell (Rumor has that at six seconds.) to making it take a full minute or longer.

Reasons to do so:
To lower it's spell level. (Level 4 spell becomes a Level 3 or less.)
Increase it's duration.
Increase it's power.
Remove need for components or foci.
Etc...

Methods to do so:
Increase casting time.
Add components or foci.
Add conditional requirments. (Day, night, full moon, etc...)
Etc...

I'd expect cities to have such spells.
Healing, repair, scrying, household luxuries, etc...

Would it badly screw up game balance?

 

[Dandu]

It depends on the spell. I mean, a Mage Armor that takes a full minute to cast, but still lasts for hours/level is not at all in line for a cantrip.

 

[Jack Simth]

Would it badly screw up game balance?

If done willy-nilly, yes.

You see, the spells you generally cast out of combat are done because they meet one of the following criteria:

1) They have an immediate effect not particularly applicable to combat (e.g., Teleport, Cure spells, the assorted fix-it spells, Knock, Make Whole, et cetera).
2) They have an effect on combat statistics, but a long-enough duration that you can cast them beforehand without overly much difficulty (Mage Armor, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestments, Heroes' Feast, Endure Elements, and so on).
3) They have a very long (or Permanent, or Instant) duration already.

Basically, any spell you cast where you don't much care what the casting time is because it's not something you need to do in the middle of a fight. Anything that already has a ten minutes/level or longer duration is cast out of combat. The low-level healing spells are cast out of combat. Travel spells are usually cast out of combat. Utility spells are usually cast out of combat. Any of these? If you them and make them lower-level versions of themselves by adding casting time... you've basically just given the caster a low-expense (not free - spell research has an expense associated) upgrade that's fairly significant. Casters are already strong enough.

Likewise, if you take a combat buff (call it minutes/level or less) and give it an increased casting time to justify making it a 10 minutes/level duration spell of the same level, and you've just increased the odds that people will be buffed to the gills - as now that Shield spell will likely last three or four encounters, the Fighter has a lot less need for those +2 Gauntlets of Ogre Strength when he can get a +4 from the Wizard that'll last all day, and so on. Again: You've basically just given the caster a low-expense upgrade that's fairly significant. Casters are already strong enough. They don't need the boost.

Now, a ten minute casting time on Fireball? It'll probably see use a few times in exactly the right campaign. Otherwise, it's basically useless. Spells that are almost always going to be used in combat as-is are not going to be gamebreaking if you drop them a level, give them a ten-minute casting time, and don't make any further changes.

 

[Rampant]

My thinking has always been that unless otherwise demonstrated it is best to never let pcs have anything before a mono-classed wizard could cast a spell similar or identical to the effect invoked. So I think it would be a bad idea to have spells like that wandering around.

That said cities could have triggered, unlimited use spells built into places: tenser's floating disc becomes a cargo lift; mending on the walls set to go off every round the wall is not at full HP; timed prestidigitations on the street lamps to direct traffic; etc.

 

[Greenfield]

Consider creating a Ritual Magic feat.

Spells done as rituals take longer and have a significantly higher material cost, and/or an Exp cost.

The advantage is that you can boost the effective caster level, and thus the duration, range and/or effectiveness of the spell.

The limitation is that Rituals can only be applied to spells that are instantaneous, or of fixed location.

So if you want to bump a Forbiddance, you can. If you want to bump your Mage Armor or Stoneskin, you can't.

 

[Shin Okada]

Well, compare it to existing mechanics in the game. Say,


#Casting a Mage Armor spell (Caster Level 1)

Takes a standard action and a 1st-level spell slot.

Gives +4 AC for 1 hour.


#Scribing 10 scrolls of Mage Armor spell (Caster Level 1)

Takes 125 gp, 10 XPs, 1 day, a 1st-level spell slot. Requires Scribe Scroll feat.

Gives +4 AC for 10 hours.


Hmmm. I don't think the latter or the similar effect should be achieved by just spending a 0-level spell slot.

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, it takes 10 spell slots to scribe 10 scrolls. The act of creating the item consumes the spell slot.

There are also those who limit item creation to one item per day, max.

As a general caution, however, I'll say that I'm not in favor of ways for spell casters to bump their power level, even if you make it an "exceptional" thing. Players always tend to think that if exceptions are possible, they should be that exception.

For many players, "Almost never" means "always" and "almost always" means "never.

 

[Shin Okada]

Actually, it takes 10 spell slots to scribe 10 scrolls. The act of creating the item consumes the spell slot.

Ah yes. At first I wrote the example as crafting a wand, the re-wrote it to scribing scrolls. Then forgot to edit that part

 

[KerlanRayne]

I know there are some spells that experiment with casting time/duration and power level. There are the "Swift" versions of some spells like Haste and Fly. These do the opposite of what you ask by decreasing both casting time and duration. I know there are also a few spells that increase in effect depending on casting it as a swift / standard / full round action. Seems these are all combat spells though.