D&D 5E Overpowered Items and GM Expectations

[Fauchard1520]

You don't necessarily need magic items in 5e. Mearls famously explained that mess way back in 2012. But with the math behind the system assuming that you receive only the specific abilities and bonuses granted by your character class and race, any little boost in power goes a long way towards tipping the power balance. That's why you don't hand out +3 weapons like they're candy to starting-level PCs.

But suppose that you actually want to go ham with the magic items? You want to hand out uber-powerful world-shaking artifacts and give the party the chance to play with them. How do you calibrate your expectations as a GM? Is there anything beyond "expect the unexpected" or "see how they do and then recalibrate your encounter design?" Basically, I'm asking how to prepare for a party wielding an Orb of Dragonkind of a Deck of Many Things. Is it possible to run a reasonable game with these things in play? Or will they always upset game balance beyond repair?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

 

[Bayushi_seikuro]

I think the first issue is what kind of story or game do you want to play? Do you want something superheroic and let the party just stomp through waves and waves of mobs? Go for it. I personally feel that if you're going to give those kind of items out - which I have no problem with - you should definitely make the party fight tougher things for challenges. Let them shine. Let them punch way above their weight.

You have to think about what it will mean for your game world. To put it in Marvel terms, are you playing Avengers-level powers, or are you playing Spiderman level stuff? Because Spiderman with Mjolnir could wreck some stuff, but it might get boring either for you or the players. YMMV

 

[BacchusNL]

Some items (and you pretty much named 2 of the biggest offenders already) are also a lot more problematic then others. If the bonusses are powerful but fairly straight forward DPS then you can always manage your monster HP/ AC accordingly, other items just create pure chaos or situations where you can't deny a player godlike power (because that's literaly what some items do)

 

[ccs]

Well, before you go handing out that Deck of Many Things, you should take some time & consider how you're going to deal with each card/effect.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

Well, before you go handing out that Deck of Many Things, you should take some time & consider how you're going to deal with each card/effect.

I see what you did there.

 

[ccs]

I see what you did there.

 

[practicalm]

The way magic items work in most D&D games is that they work at the same level no matter how powerful the wielder is.
The One Ring is powerful in the hands of a powerful being not as much when worn by a hobbit burglar

The idea of magic items that scale isn't new, but if more of them worked like that some balance would be achieved.
I definitely think charges should not replenish for free but have to be charged up with spell slots. Though that just shortens the work day and then puts rest periods to do item recharging.
Or make recharging a quest. You want that fireball wand recharged go get some fresh red dragon blood. Though that just begs for a service to be started for some entrepreneurial adventurers.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My approach to handing out artifacts is:
1. Don't let them be world-endingly powerful, just dangerous or special. World-ending MacGuffins feel coercive. Things that the party can clearly see how they have a specific, dangerous use or which do something you really don't want falling in the wrong hands.
2. Don't give the players complete and functional artifacts. Something incomplete or non-functional drives interest in making it useful, leading to new quests and new revelations. It may also let the player shape the artifact's direction or function.

In the game I run, most artifacts are symbols as well as tools, and symbols have real power. Symbolic victories change the nature and direction of the world, and symbolic items can fundamentally alter attitudes and behaviors. Many of these tools also have great practical power; for example, the Heart of the Sirocco (a grapefruit-sized powerfully-enchanated, wind-aspected raw emerald) has allowed the Sultana to make the trade-winds around the main city always favorable, and now that the party has given her the Storm's Eye (similar in size, but more "solid geode"-like, and lightning-aspected), she implicitly has the ability to control the weather for the region. The Sultana is a smart and generally benevolent ruler, however, so she uses these powers carefully and sparingly, knowing that neither magic nor the elemental spirits are forces to be trifled with.

But, though "weather control" is definitely a special and potentially-dangerous power, the symbolic power she now holds over elemental things? Yeah, that will be a HUGE deal for political relations with Jinnistan, the genie "nation" in the elemental otherworld (Al-Akirah). The Sultana has effectively made herself (and, implicitly, her descendants) a power equal to the likes of millennia-old genie-rajahs. That's a huge friggin' deal. Suddenly, the fact that she is a highly eligible bachelorette will go from "interesting, with the potential for surprises" to "something every sultana and princeling has on their mind," once it becomes common knowledge that she has this power. (Both the party and the Sultana have been very careful to keep these things under wraps.)

Symbols raise armies, change religions, slay vast and terrible spirits, transform fiends, and resurrect nations. All without needing to be more than a particularly fancy stick with a sharp bit on the end, or a rock that controls the wind. Never doubt the power of a symbol in the right place, at the right time.

(The fancy stick is actually a living acacia branch, its symbolism linking druidry to the heavens as well as the earth.)

 

[Krachek]

I see the deck in play once, 1 dead, 2 missing, the two remaining characters including mine got nice boost.
the dm admit it was a personal phantasm to run it since long ago.
it took long to recover but it was a nice firework.

otherwise a +3 sword wont help a first level to kill a hill giant or a troll.
but magic item should get pc the feeling they got more powerful, if the dm balance back everything what is the point to give powerful item. It Make me remember of 4Ed, +30 to hit, but still need at least 10 to make a hit.

 

[Dragonsbane]

Although I would never give those items out, let's say I did. They would need to be taken off the bodies of bad buys, usually head villains. Then perhaps up the CR of your typical foes, perhaps get ready for running around on the planes?

Orb of dragonkind might be usable, but the Deck... get ready for your game to change on a draw ie character death, players taken somewhere far, death arrives, etc

 

[Fauchard1520]

I see the deck in play once, 1 dead, 2 missing, the two remaining characters including mine got nice boost.
the dm admit it was a personal phantasm to run it since long ago.
it took long to recover but it was a nice firework.

I feel like the Deck is the One Ring of DMing. It wields a temptation too great and terrible to resist, even though you know it will only lead to ruin.

 

[Krachek]

I feel like the Deck is the One Ring of DMing. It wields a temptation too great and terrible to resist, even though you know it will only lead to ruin.

I don’t have answer to the OP. Some want to have weird stuff at their table but are they able to manage it? I can guess that if a table cannot manage rolled abilities, MC feat combo, material from Xanatar and Tasha, they won’t be able to manage out of scope magic items.

 

[Stalker0]

My recommendation would be to assume that the items will be temporary.

Go with a classic LOTR idea, the party is given the "one ring" (or equivalent), and has to get it to X place. Now maybe there is not the evil restriction on using the item, in fact they are encourage to use the item as much as they need to get the job done.

As a DM, this lets you get a feel for how the item works in your game. If they get to the place and you are going "I am so tired of this item", then the party has to get rid of it, quest complete, and you move on. But if they get there and you are still digging it, maybe the twist is they get to hold on to after all for "reasons".

But yeah I think its important to add this trap door in the game for yourself, this allows you a chance to try before you buy with such powerful items.

 

[Benjamin Olson]

I feel like the Deck is the One Ring of DMing. It wields a temptation too great and terrible to resist, even though you know it will only lead to ruin.

Or, it might not really change much, in which case you'll likely be disappointed. Ruinous chaos is what you actually wanted when you brought the thing into play.

 

[Shiroiken]

Powerful, even artifact/relic level magic items don't have to ruin a campaign if you plan for them. The big issues are with unlimited usage, such as uncharged or quickly recharging items, or those with highly random effects. I've had lots of experience over the decades, so I've seen how they can be used well, and how they can be used badly. Here's a story of each, plus an humorous, albeit insane, story from my earliest campaign.

I ran an epic 5E campaign that ran from level 1 to 18, ending by facing Lolth, the Queen of the Demonweb Pits. The party found Doud's Wondrous Lanthorn at about level 10, which could replicate pretty much every light based spell, plus had other powers. However they needed the different lenses to work, as they only had the 4 crystal lenses not the 7 gem lenses needed to unlock all the abilities. With only a few abilities, it wasn't very powerful for that point in the campaign. As the campaign progressed, they recovered various lenses that unlocked more and more abilities as appropriate for that level. There was also the cost to fuel it (expensive gems), and the person attuned to it would die forever if the flame ever went out, so they didn't use its powers willy-nilly.

A friend of mine during 3E figured out that you could make a ring of infinite wishes (cast wish as action every round) using the rules in the DMG. It was insanely hard to do, but he was thinking about putting it in a campaign and wanted to justify its existence mechanically. I pointed out that he essentially created the One Ring, and best be ready for that level of impact. He wasn't, and the entire campaign was a fiasco, where the party killed each other to gain control of it.

WAYYY back in 1E, I inherited a campaign that was in the mid-20th level (1E and OD&D had unlimited progression). As they neared level 30, they had found a Deck of Many Things, which they'd experienced once before. For whatever reason, these morons decided to bet magic items on an insane game of "5 card draw" (it was actually stud, but we didn't know the difference). Each player would draw a card from the Deck, then each survivor could wager a magic item that would have to be matched in value or fold. In theory whoever had the best hand won, but in reality the only survivor won. One lost all his wealth and magic items, one had his soul stolen by Orcus, and another was Imprisoned within the astral plane. The two then departed to recover the two that were lost, after taking their loot of course!

 

[TheSword]

Just up the difficulty of monsters. Add character classes, improve armour, give them parry, give them spell like abilities, give them enchanted effects.

Im running my group through Kingmaker, adapted to take into consideration some of the elements from the computer game.

When you see the group of 6th level PCs face off against trolls with 2 levels of fighter, wearing half plate, and large great swords, who have a brand making them immune to fire it turns everything up a notch. That group has magic items above their level. Why not. It’s fun.

The more I run monsters in 5e the more I realize I don’t believe they’re meant to be ran straight. They’re the base level. Let your imagination (deviousness) run riot and pile on the extras.

 

[cmad1977]

You don't necessarily need magic items in 5e. Mearls famously explained that mess way back in 2012. But with the math behind the system assuming that you receive only the specific abilities and bonuses granted by your character class and race, any little boost in power goes a long way towards tipping the power balance. That's why you don't hand out +3 weapons like they're candy to starting-level PCs.

But suppose that you actually want to go ham with the magic items? You want to hand out uber-powerful world-shaking artifacts and give the party the chance to play with them. How do you calibrate your expectations as a GM? Is there anything beyond "expect the unexpected" or "see how they do and then recalibrate your encounter design?" Basically, I'm asking how to prepare for a party wielding an Orb of Dragonkind of a Deck of Many Things. Is it possible to run a reasonable game with these things in play? Or will they always upset game balance beyond repair?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Just add more metal to your adventure design.

 

[Zsong]

You don't necessarily need magic items in 5e. Mearls famously explained that mess way back in 2012. But with the math behind the system assuming that you receive only the specific abilities and bonuses granted by your character class and race, any little boost in power goes a long way towards tipping the power balance. That's why you don't hand out +3 weapons like they're candy to starting-level PCs.

But suppose that you actually want to go ham with the magic items? You want to hand out uber-powerful world-shaking artifacts and give the party the chance to play with them. How do you calibrate your expectations as a GM? Is there anything beyond "expect the unexpected" or "see how they do and then recalibrate your encounter design?" Basically, I'm asking how to prepare for a party wielding an Orb of Dragonkind of a Deck of Many Things. Is it possible to run a reasonable game with these things in play? Or will they always upset game balance beyond repair?

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

Trial and error. Figure it out. Learn how things work. Experiment. That’s not an insult or attempt to be condescending. That’s how I learned b/x and ad&d. And I think the game is better for it. I think may of the things aren’t really quantifiable on a universal level for everyone. It depends on how I chooses to run your game and encounters and interactions.

 

[Guest User]

My still active, inaugural 5e campaign is something I have wanted to try for 30 years,
it features the Swords of Power...as inspired by the works of Fred Saberhagen.

Trial and Error experimentation is needed. A weapon like Townsaver....a longsword that becomes a +5 Weapon and grants the wielder something like a Zealot Barbarian's Rage Beyond Death power isn't as difficult to balance, as one may think.

Now, Stonecutter, which as an action could either create a Passwall effect, or
Move Earth effect...was vastly more disruptive than Townsaver.

I personally believe artifacts should place a target on the wielder's back.

A fantasy world church, with a footprint In the campaign similar to the Catholic Church, might be heavily motivated to recover the death shroud of the earthly incarnation of the god they worship. If that artifact is in the hands of the PC, some complications will happen.

I love the Deck of Many things, and have included the artifact in almost every game I have ran. Eventually, someone is going to turn over a malignant card at the wrong time, probably more than once.

This usually leads the players to agree that the deck is too unpredictable to use safely.

 

[Zsong]

My still active, inaugural 5e campaign is something I have wanted to try for 30 years,
it features the Swords of Power...as inspired by the works of Fred Saberhagen.

Trial and Error experimentation is needed. A weapon like Townsaver....a longsword that becomes a +5 Weapon and grants the wielder something like a Zealot Barbarian's Rage Beyond Death power isn't as difficult to balance, as one may think.

Now, Stonecutter, which as an action could either create a Passwall effect, or
Move Earth effect...was vastly more disruptive than Townsaver.

I personally believe artifacts should place a target on the wielder's back.

A fantasy world church, with a footprint In the campaign similar to the Catholic Church, might be heavily motivated to recover the death shroud of the earthly incarnation of the god they worship. If that artifact is in the hands of the PC, some complications will happen.

I love the Deck of Many things, and have included the artifact in almost every game I have ran. Eventually, someone is going to turn over a malignant card at the wrong time, probably more than once.

This usually leads the players to agree that the deck is too unpredictable to use safely.

I love the deck of many things. I place in games just to see who will take the risk to see if their greed pays off.
I once had them do it with a red dragon that loved random games of chance. And they played it with the red dragon. The red dragon drawer the card that changes its alignment to lawful good. And the dragon became a reoccurring npc, more of a quest sender or source for lore and knowledge. And it was definitely not a planned character for my sandbox campaign.