D&D 5E Overspecialization

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I also think it depends on the size of the party. The smaller the party, the greater the cost of specialization. In a larger the party, generalists are overshadowed by other characters.

In my 14-player group, two players chose very strange specializations. The charlatan conjurer specializes in movement (jump, invisibility, fly, blink, etc.). Our sailor wild magic sorcerer specializes in color (change self, color spray, hypnotic patterns, prismatic spray), which is lots of fun, but did require some house-ruling.

 

[CleverNickName]

Players who deliberately limit their own options, then complain about their lack of options, are an endless source of amusement for DMs.

The barbarian or monk that refuses to carry a ranged weapon, then complains about skirmishers, archers, and flyers.
The fiery fire-mage who never prepares a spell unless it deals fire damage, then complains about fire-resistant targets.
The AC 25 fighter who tanked his Int, then complains about Int-save spells.
And so on.

What's that old saying? "Poor planning on your part doesn't mean I'm a bad DM."

 

[Northern Phoenix]

Players who deliberately limit their own options, then complain about their lack of options, are an endless source of amusement for DMs.

The barbarian or monk that refuses to carry a ranged weapon, then complains about skirmishers, archers, and flyers.
The fiery fire-mage who never prepares a spell unless it deals fire damage, then complains about fire-resistant targets.
The AC 25 fighter who tanked his Int, then complains about Int-save spells.
And so on.

What's that old saying? "Poor planning on your part doesn't mean I'm a bad DM."

This seems like a very old fashioned, pvp style of DM mentality. Int saves, fire immune foes, or archers all exist only because the DM wants them to exist. If you want to gatcha someone, that's fine, but don't pretend that's not what your doing. This being a problem at a table is generally created out of a disconnect between DMs who want to play grid-based-war-game and players who just want to be a fantasy archetype in a fantasy world, inspired by their favorite inspirational media or actual play. If they wanted to play grid-based-war-game, they probably would have created an appropriate character for that, if you let them know that's what was up.

 

[Undrave]

Honestly, there's not enough spell of each damage type to offer THAT many overspecialization option... We could use a few more...

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

This seems like a very old fashioned, pvp style of DM mentality. Int saves, fire immune foes, or archers all exist only because the DM wants them to exist. If you want to gatcha someone, that's fine, but don't pretend that's not what your doing. This being a problem at a table is generally created out of a disconnect between DMs who want to play grid-based-war-game and players who just want to be a fantasy archetype in a fantasy world, inspired by their favorite inspirational media or actual play. If they wanted to play grid-based-war-game, they probably would have created an appropriate character for that, if you let them know that's what was up.

Which is why players should choose adventures that fit their strength and leave the others for different heroes to handle. It's only a problem when the DM forces a player to begin or continue an adventure a character obviously isn't suited for.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The sorcerer with all fire damage spells isn't a power gamer's choice anyway. You would choose that as a themic choice, not an optimisation choice. You choose it because you want your character to have a weakness, because weaknesses make characters interesting.

The sort of overspecialised build that an optimiser build is the sort of thing we discussed in another thread - a character highly specialised in a specific weapon, like the SS+CBM battlemaster, which may mean the don't find a magic version of their chosen weapon, and are thus stuffed against a wide range of higher level foes. Of course they aren't really stuffed - they are still a battlemaster and they can do reasonably well with a +1 shortsword. But for an optimiser, doing "reasonably well" isn't good enough.

 

[Jeff Albertson]

Sure. Just meaning he's not a good example of a specialized fire/light mage with some other tricks up his belt, because his much better modeled by Clerics.

He doesn't really translate into D&D well, probably some unique demigod/celestial deal.

 

[CleverNickName]

This seems like a very old fashioned, pvp style of DM mentality. Int saves, fire immune foes, or archers all exist only because the DM wants them to exist. If you want to gatcha someone, that's fine, but don't pretend that's not what your doing. This being a problem at a table is generally created out of a disconnect between DMs who want to play grid-based-war-game and players who just want to be a fantasy archetype in a fantasy world, inspired by their favorite inspirational media or actual play. If they wanted to play grid-based-war-game, they probably would have created an appropriate character for that, if you let them know that's what was up.

It's not "old-fashioned," it's not "a PVP style of mentality," and it's not a "gatcha," it's just a kobold with a crossbow. It's the same crossbow that the barbarian can purchase in any shop and use without penalty, but decided not to because it wasn't optimized and therefore, "completely useless." The player made a deliberate choice to hamstring his character in all ranged encounters--you can't put that on the DM.

It's pretty silly for the player to assume that because he decided to never buy a ranged weapon, ranged combat is now off-limits. (I mean, what if another player wants to play an archer ranger? Is he just out of luck now?) Likewise, it's pretty silly for the player to assume that because his wizard focuses on fire spells, all enemy spellcasters can't cast the protection from energy spell.

It's a disconnect alright, but I think it's in the opposite direction from which you implied.

Which is why players should choose adventures that fit their strength and leave the others for different heroes to handle. It's only a problem when the DM forces a player to begin or continue an adventure a character obviously isn't suited for.

Exactly. It would be different if ranged weapons weren't available for purchase, or if the DM decided that barbarians are no longer proficient with ranged weapons of any kind. That would certainly be the DM's fault.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to focus on melee combat (or ranged combat, or fire spells, or whatever) at the expense of other things. Just understand that it is going to limit your options later on, and that's okay.

 

[Tonguez]

Or, lacking that, I think it could be a fair bit of re-flavoring to make things work. Even Gandalf the Grey, who specialized in fire & lights type of magic, still had other tricks to help out. Things like 'dispelling' hostile fire hazards or attacks "I am a Servant of the Secret Fire and a wielder of the Flame of Anor! The Dark Fire will not avail you, Flame of Udun!" Perhaps that Cone of Cold is merely a skilled fire mage taking the heat out of everything in the area. After all, Morgoth (to once again go to Tolkien), who was somewhat of a Fire God (or at least, that seemed to be his realm, just as Manwe was Air, Ulmo was Water & Alue was Earth) caused fierce colds to ravage the land and thereby created snow and ice. Perhaps a divination spell is seeing a vision in a fire burning special fuel with incense. Magic Missile and radiant damage can be seen as part of, or at least adjacent to, a broad defination of a fire theme.

This

a creative player and non-ass DM should be able to get their hyper-specialisation to cover most situations. Of course its significantly easier to do that with a Fire Mage since fiery plasmas Are so versatile which is why the ability to reskin different spells should also be standard across everything.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I have played some VERY focused PCs, and Jack of All Trades ones as well. Both are fun, and present different RP and campaign challenges.

When I play a super-focused character, I try think things through ahead of time so that my “1-trick“ PC can contribute when that trick is nerfed or useless.