D&D 4E Paizo and 4e - Vive le Revolution!

[Nellisir]

I'm partial to AD&D (3rd Edition).

Amen. I miss AD&D (the name, not the game)

 

[Xaaon]

Exactly, those and variant rules from Unearthed Arcana and Book of Iron Might and any number of 3rd party publishers allow most people to pretty much make their own 3.75 rules and still basically be compatible with 3.5.

The people who are going on about how 3.75 may split the market even further arent taking into consideration HOW it can be put together to not completely invalidate 3.5 as 4E is apparently doing. I'd buy into a well done 3.75 version, I'm not re-buying into a version of D&D that pretty much invalidates most of the mechanics (and now it seems most of the fluff as well) that came before it. I'm not also into buying into a new version of something just because it's new. I'd like to be able to still use the metric assload of 3.5 resources and adventures that I have and 4E is not going to allow me to do that.

Book of Iron Might is great, we're just starting to use the maneuver rules, I spent a couple hours making quick reference cards to help keep it from being cumbersome.

 

[Xaaon]

Actually i have some problems understanding the merrits of a 3.75 Edition. Wouldn't the players who resent 4th Ed. want new third party products to be completly compatible with their game of choice (that would be 3.5)?? Why should they change to 3.75 for a handfull of new books? If a 3.75 Ed. would be completly compatible with 3.5, what reasons are there to make a distinctive 3.75 Ed. in the first place? Change for the sake of change? A grognard could argue that a semi-new Edition that differs to much from 3.5 would make all of his old books obsolete. (Actually i find it difficult to follow that logic but i see comments like that all the time on these boards)

Personally, i'm hoping for Paizo and Necromancer Games to provide me with cutting edge 4th Edition material.

Because a 3.75 edition wouldn't be a half-3rd/half-4th eidtion, it would be a cleaned-up 3.5 edition, not a major new edition...

I'm a rule-bender, I mix and match rules to make the game how I like it. Running Savage Tide in Eberron atm. I did major revisions to the Lotus Dragons, I just didn't think the theives guild worked right with every rogue in the guild being a 1st level human rogue...So I mixed it up, had 7 different combinations.

The only major changes I think need to be done are to the grappling rules. Anyone know of a good 3rd party grappling system I may have missed?

 

[Sunderstone]

All these threads all point to the same thing imho.


We dont need a 4E drastic change at this time, if we did the overall fanbase obviously wouldnt be this split over it. Folks are fine with some of the clunky rules, house rules, etc. Heck, some new fixes via Errata to stuff like Grappling and Polymorph would be fine.

WotC on the other hand says, tough we are getting one anyway because we need it. As many have said before WotC is in the business to make money. So THEY obviously need 4E more than we do.

Despite all the stuff about 3.5 WotC is so bad, we still play it (most of us), we still have great campaigns running, and designers at companies like Green Ronin, Paizo, Necromancer, Goodman, etc. continuously pumped out really good product.

Take a look at what Erik Mona and the gang at Paizo did over in Dungeon/Dragon magazines...
How could so many people love the APs or even have such rave reviews of some adventures that appeared in Dungeon magazine if the game itself was that Broken ?

Same for the popularity of Freeport, or the goodman modules, or some of the Necromancer stuff.

Even further, look at the some of the books from WotC themselves.... The Dragonomicon, XPH, Red Hand of Doom. How could so many people even play with and/or through all these great products if the game was that broken, let alone rave about these books.

WotC says its broken because they want a new edition obviously more than we do, they get paid this way. "The Progress Bus" comment made me laugh. It's a clydesdale-led bandwagon with a great big WotC carrot leading, plain and simple (again imho).

3.5 is extremely playable, peoples campaign journals, great modules and APs proved this. So I repeat yet again, if it was that broken.... how could we be this split over it?

 

[DaveMage]

WotC says its broken because they want a new edition obviously more than we do...

Interesting way of putting it.

I agree - I think WotC does need a new edition more than we do. (Although clearly, a lot of people want the new edition, so who knows?)

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

We dont need a 4E drastic change at this time, if we did the overall fanbase obviously wouldnt be this split over it.

This is the Internet. We could get a fierce and violent debate over whether chocolate is yummy.

 

[FourthBear]

We dont need a 4E drastic change at this time, if we did the overall fanbase obviously wouldnt be this split over it.

I've been around for the introduction of 1e, 2e, 3e, 3.5e and now 4e. In every single case, the overall fanbase was split over the necessity and value of the new version of D&D. Does this mean that we didn't need a new edition at any of those times? I guess the answer is yes, we didn't need a new edition. It's just a game, no one needs a new edition of it. But I've gotten a lot of fun out of each new edition just the same.

 

[Rechan]

We dont need a 4E drastic change at this time, if we did the overall fanbase obviously wouldnt be this split over it.

Well, let's take a look at EnWorld's fanbase, on polls conducted in this forum.

About views on 4e in general How do you feel about the edition right now? (65/35 good/bad). And then you have polls that look at specific elements of 4e that have been revealed; Do you like Per Encounter abilities? (78/22 yes/no), Do you want Save or Dies? (66/22/7 yes/no/don't care), What do you think of the new Cosmology? (70/14/16 Like/Dislike/Indifferent).

A split implies some sort of 50/50 division. I'm seeing a 2/3rds majority versus minority here.

 

[DandD]

However, to be fair, this message board is not very representative of the normal gaming populace interested in D&D.

It could very well be that in reality, 9/10 of every D&D-gamer wouldn't want a 4th edition.

Of course, it could also well be that 99.9999% are in favour for the upcoming 4th edition.

 

[Rechan]

However, to be fair, this message board is not very representative of the normal gaming populace interested in D&D.

Well that's a given. I'm not saying that D&D players are split.

Fact is, we don't know. But we do know how the people who responded to the polls - who come to the 4e forums - stand.