Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Primal]

Free PDFs! Awesome! That'll help them tremendously to sell Pathfinder stuff. Genius! I'm totally going to check it out. I can't wait to see what they make!

I agree -- in my opinion this is a great marketing strategy (which many Indie RPG publishers have also used). *Everybody* gets a free preview of the end product *and* can participate in the playtesting process. My players and local fellow DMs were *very* excited to hear the news and also downloaded the rules. I've already outlined a storyline synopsis for a Pathfinder campaign which we will begin once all the classes are released!

After taking a look at the rules I like them a lot. Definitely more to my (and my players') taste than what I've seen of 4E! So, thanks Jason, Eric, Lisa et al. for your courage and openness! I can't wait to get the printed copy of Pathfinder RPG! My only concern so far is that I have to wait over a year to get it...

 

[Lizard]

"Content released under the Open Gaming License (OGL) may be converted and released under the GSL, provided the new releases conform to the conditions herein."

They can't say that.

The only people who can convert OGL material are the copyright holders. The GSL can't grant conversion rights. About the only thing it CAN do is place the SRD under the GSL, so that material based solely on the SRD+original contributions can be converted. (The SRD can be placed under the GSL with the proviso that it can only be used for 'upgrading' previous material.)

 

[BryonD]

to take forum-goers as any kind of representative sample of a market is usually folly.

I agree. But, if I leave of forum-goers then I literally do not know anyone who likes 4e. I somehow doubt that is a fair assessment either......

 

[Khairn]

There seems to be a very rules set mentality about the decision making, as if everything about Paizo's move is rules focused.

But I would like to point out that the most interesting aspect of their announcement is the company's commitment to organized play, and that Nic Logue will be running it. Whether you've run Paizo or Wotc adventures in the past, there's a good chance Nic's name's been on that product, had a hand in writing it, or contributed something to it. This is a guy who knows adventures.

The commitment to organized play, the commitment to growing the hobby, should be commended.

Nick is one of a handfull of adventure writers who's name (along with Ari, Monte, Wolfganag, Will and a few more) on a product means a virtual gauruntee that I will buy it. Having him as the leader (face) of their "Living Pathfinder" means a lot to me.

The entire scope of Paizo's announcement is impressive, and I'm very interested to see how it pans out.

 

[Alnag]

Don't forget that there is also a scenario in play, that Pathfinder RPG will never reach beyond beta stage. If sales of Pathfinder drop significantly after 4e there will be no sense in holding 3.5e line and they will convert Pathfinder adventure to 4e. That would be the end of the Pathfinder RPG dream as well.

I don't know how probable this alternative is, but it seems to me, it is ignored in this discussion.

 

[BryonD]

Part of me wants to boycott all Paizo-published materials (including Necromancer's stuff) to show Paizo that decisions like this have consequences

LOL

It is funny how statements like this are suddenly ok. Anyone who said anything remotely like that about the decisions WotC made would get buried in venom and decried as a "hater" who was just making selfish, emotional, cynical statements with no regard to merit or open-mindedness.

Welcome to the other side of the mirror.

 

[TrainedMunkee]

Economic Realities

It'll be $49.95 for the entire game. One book, one game.

Last I saw, Wotc's three book 4E came in around $104 -- as a comparison.

They would sell a lot more by dividing the book up into three parts at a lower price. There might be a niche for a fifty dollar book, but TSR stumbled upon marketing magic with the three book model. In theory five players only have to buy one book at half of the fifty dollar price. The fifty dollar price is a large stumbling block to the success of Paizo's RPG. The turn around on a RPG book is huge, hence the 2009 date. They can't possibly be competing with 4e at this point, they would be way behind in the market. They will be competing with Green Ronin for the d20 market. They will be selling to a niche market. They can't be expecting a huge amount of sales this way. The price on the book will have to be high just to meet the costs. I can draw out the curve if you want. They can do two things

1) not put all their eggs in one basket, still make a profit off of WoTC, I have a feeling WoTC is going to make this harder, their right.

2) try to get their RPG into the big chains Borders, Barnes & Nobles etc. push to advertise, including libraries, there are a lot of libraries in the east with money to spend, my wife is a librarian and I run games at the local libraries

Paizo will never be an equal of WoTC, that is just reality. Another reality is that the US has less money to spend than it did in the d20 boom.

WoTC has put Paizo in a hard place. Paizo has some smart people running their company, these moves prove that. Heck, they bought pizza for the staff, good morale booster and great management. Did you guys get beer too? I hear they have champagne on the boards. Paizo will be fine.

Peace Space

 

[Baka no Hentai]

LOL

It is funny how statements like this are suddenly ok. Anyone who said anything remotely like that about the decisions WotC made would get buried in venom and decried as a "hater" who was just making selfish, emotional, cynical statements with no regard to merit or open-mindedness.

Welcome to the other side of the mirror.

I for one dont see why either is a problem (boycotting WOTC or boycotting Paizo)... as a consumer, what other method do you have of protesting a business decision than to withold your dollar?

 

[JohnSnow]

They can't say that.

The only people who can convert OGL material are the copyright holders. The GSL can't grant conversion rights. About the only thing it CAN do is place the SRD under the GSL, so that material based solely on the SRD+original contributions can be converted. (The SRD can be placed under the GSL with the proviso that it can only be used for 'upgrading' previous material.)

Despite the prevarications and attempts of some publishers, if you actually read the license itself, any and all rules-based content published under the OGL by anyone other than WotC is open content.

And the only reason it doesn't apply equally to WotC is because, as the owner of the original mechanics, they don't have to make use of the license to release something that's compatible with D&D. Anybody else DOES.

That means ANY rules-based material released under the OGL is, by definition, open content. And since you can't release OGL material without using the OGL...

Yes, Malhavoc (and a few other companies), tried to release certain subsystems as closed content. But if you actually read the license, that's nothing but wishful thinking. To whit:

...(b)“Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) “Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d) “Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity;...

In other words, to keep any released mechanics out of the OGL, you have to recast it as Product Identity, and make that definition stick. Which is a messy proposition, to say the least.

My two cents.

 

[Jack99]

This is possible, though I have only anecdotal evidence to go on. Neither myself nor anyone in my gaming circle have ever heard of the pathfinder series. While we are familiar with some necromancer supplements and of course the magazines, we know little of Paizo as a business entity, much less as a leader in RPG products. And we have been playing D&D for many years.

This I can only attribute to the fact that we by and large purchase our D&D materials from local hobby-shops. We do not frequent any D&D related message-boards such as ENWorld... in fact the only reason I came to these boards was to find information on 4E.

Perhaps you are right, and the area I am in is not representative of the larger gaming community as far as Paizo's presence in non-internet venues. I dont believe that to be the case however... to take forum-goers as any kind of representative sample of a market is usually folly.

You are not alone. Of the 20ish gamers that I know well, all whom have played since 1e or 2e, most of whom have a fairly large collection of books, I am the only who has any knowledge of Paizo, Necromancers etc, other than having heard their name pop up, whenever I mention them.

Many thousands of gamers do exactly like you, they play DND, buy whatever is published by WoTC, and are blissfully unaware of all the possibilities of spending additional money out there, simply because they don't frequent messageboards.