Pathfinder 1E Paizo Annoucement!

[Maggan]

Also, you'll note that in most stories (books, movies, whatever) that the most powerful abilities are rarely--if ever--used up front. That's because it would get boring and repetitive real quick.

One of the things my group has agreed upon is that playing D&D is not the same as reading a book, or watching a movie, and thus it does not have to comply with linear narration.

/M

 

[hong]

Going nova is not tactical in the slightest. It's pretty much the opposite.

Going nova in 4E is very tactical indeed, because the ability to spike has been severely damped down.

You only get to enjoy the afterglow if you worked for. Otherwise, you get kicked out of bed.

"Work"?

And yet a good portion of them include resource management to varying degrees (4e included).

Resource management, yes. It just so happens that "resource management" as a principle can encompass many more things than just a 4 encounters/day assumption.

 

[Mirtek]

Evidence: every other fantasy RPG, p&p or computer, does something else. This includes franchises that are ten times more popular than D&D.

That's why every other fantasy P&P is more popular than 4e? Oh wait a moment, they aren't!

And I hardly knew any computer RPG where you use your most flashy blasts over and over again (not even WoW does this (long cooldowns, threat management)) just because you can (because you actually can't)

Even 4e doesn't do this, you still save your most flashy (and limited) powers for the BBEG at the end.

 

[Maggan]

Having something backfire spectacularly on occasion is not the same as the dungeon teeming with creatures that can see the invisible.

Yeah, once in a while, sure. If you put it like that, I can get behind it. The fun part of the game is getting in trouble, so I'm all for that.

/M

 

[hong]

That's why every other fantasy P&P is more popular than 4e? Oh wait a moment, they aren't!

Holy issue evasion, batman!

And I hardly knew any computer RPG where you use your most flashy blasts over and over again, not even WoW does this (long cooldowns, threat management)

Long cooldowns without having to retreat back to town, yes. In the context of 4E p&p, this translates roughly to per-encounter stuff, or monster abilities on a recharge.

Even 4e doesn't do this, you still save your most flashy (and limited) powers for the BBEG at the end.

And said limited powers form a much smaller subset of your total arsenal than in 3E.

 

[Azzy]

You're new here, aren't you?

So, an August 2002 sign up date qualifies me as new?

Yes. You've hit on the problem of per-encounter combat intensity management, which unfortunately has nothing to do with between-encounter adventure pacing.

This is because the most powerful enemies are the ones that are faced last. In 4E, if you want the most dangerous fight to be the one at the end, you put the most dangerous enemies at the end. You do not use 4 sets of identical enemies and let attrition do the job for you.

In 3.X, you don't use 4 sets of identical enemies either. That's the lack of understanding of the rules I'm talking about. the 4 encounters of equal EL per day is a template. You're allowed to (and the DMG even suggests that you do) vary it with some encounters being lower ELs, some being higher EL and depending on the varying ELs, you can have more or less encounters per day. There's a lot of flexibility involved.

 

[hong]

So, an August 2002 sign up date qualifies me as new?

So old, and yet so new.

In 3.X, you don't use 4 sets of identical enemies either. That's the lack of understanding of the rules I'm talking about. the 4 encounters of equal EL per day is a template. You're allowed to (and the DMG even suggests that you do) vary it with some encounters being lower ELs, some being higher EL and depending on the varying ELs, you can have more or less encounters per day. There's a lot of flexibility involved.

And...? The basic principle of the 4 encounters/day paradigm is that you can throw 4 identical sets of enemies at the party, and the attrition is supposed to do the job of making the later fights more dangerous. Which 1) says nothing of situations where it may not make sense to have 4 encounters in a day; 2) uses the wrong tool for the job of adventure pacing. If you make earlier fights even easier to allow later fights to be more dangerous, then all you do is make the earlier fights even more boring.

 

[Mirtek]

Holy issue evasion, batman!

Talking about yourself, aren't you?

Since none of all the other P&P RPG following what you consider "very common values of "fun" and "interesting"" are as popular as D&D, the conclusion seems to be that you are in the minority and that P&P players very much like what you consider "antiquated approach to combat"

And...? The basic principle of the 4 encounters/day paradigm is that you can throw 4 identical sets of enemies at the party, and the attrition is supposed to do the job of making the later fights more dangerous. Which 1) says nothing of situations where it may not make sense to have 4 encounters in a day; 2) uses the wrong tool for the job of adventure pacing.

Which is different from the 4e encounters/day paradigm of "a total value of [...] XP is an appropriate encounter for a level X pary" because?

 

[hong]

Talking about yourself, aren't you?

Since none of all the other P&P RPG following what you consider "very common values of "fun" and "interesting"", the conclusion seems to be that you are in the minority and that P&P players very much like what you consider "antiquated approach to combat"

I'm not sure what you're trying to assert here, so I can't even ask for evidence.

 

[Mirtek]

I'm not sure what you're trying to assert here, so I can't even ask for evidence.

Ups, damn insert key. Should have been:


Since none of all the other P&P RPG following what you consider "very common values of "fun" and "interesting"" are as popular as D&D, the conclusion seems to be that you are in the minority and that P&P players very much like what you consider "antiquated approach to combat"