Pathfinder 2E Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

Paizo has just announced the Second Edition of its Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Read on for the announcement straight from the horse's mouth. The horse, in this case, being Pathfinder designer Jason Bulmahn. "In 2008, Paizo launched an unprecedented public playtest aimed at updating the third edition rules to make them more fun, easier to learn, and better able to support thrilling fantasy adventures. More than 40,000 gamers just like you joined in the fun by playtesting the new Pathfinder RPG rules and providing feedback, and the rest is gaming history. Now, 10 years later, it's time to put the lessons of the last decade to use and evolve the game once again. It's time for Pathfinder Second Edition!"


PlaytestRulebook.png


Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.



Illustration by Wayne Reynolds​
[h=2]New, but the Same[/h]Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.
[h=2]Building a Character[/h]It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.
[h=2]Playing the Game[/h]We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!
Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!
[h=2]Monsters and Treasure[/h]The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.
We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!
[h=2]What's Next?[/h]There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!
Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!
[h=2]We Need You![/h]All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Features[/h]The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

  • 10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists
  • Alchemists in Core
  • Archetypes and Multiclassing
  • Class Changes
  • Classic Monsters and Magic
  • Clean, Modular Information-Based Design
  • Combat Maneuvers that Rock
  • Designed for All Levels of Play
  • Easier to Play
  • Goblin Player Characters
  • Golarion-Infused
  • Heroic Storytelling
  • Innovative Initiative
  • More Customization
  • New Background System
  • Pathfinder Society
  • Production Values
  • Race Changes and Feats
  • Rebalanced Magic Items
  • Simplified Actions
  • Streamlined Proficiencies
  • Support
  • True to Pathfinder
  • Wayne Reynolds Art

[h=2]Compatibility?[/h]The big question -- backwards compatibility? Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Products[/h]All Pathfinder Playtest products will be released as FREE downloads exclusively at paizo.com on August 2, 2018. On the same day, we'll release limited-edition print versions of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, and Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack for players and Game Masters seeking the ultimate playtest experience. These print editions will be available for preorder from local retailers now and paizo.com between March 20 and May 1. We'll also have copies at the Paizo booth during Gen Con 2018 in Indianapolis on August 2–5.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook[/h]This massive 400-page rulebook contains everything you need to create characters and run Pathfinder Playtest adventures from levels 1–20! With gorgeous new illustrations by Wayne Reynolds, the Playtest Rulebook lights the path leading directly to Pathfinder's future. Available in three editions: softcover, hardcover, and deluxe hardcover with foil-debossed faux-leather cover and ribbon bookmark.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn[/h]This 96-page super-adventure contains seven multi-encounter scenarios designed to introduce the new rules and put them to the ultimate test on your game table! With adventures spanning all 20 levels and featuring most of the game's newest rules, Doomsday Dawn provides a thrilling tour of the new rules, and of the Pathfinder world itself!
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack[/h]Throw your heroes into the action with this collection of two double-sided Flip-Mats for use with the Playtest Adventure. These beautiful full-color maps measure 24" x 30" unfolded and set the scene for climactic battles that will determine the future of Pathfinder! The maps' erasable surface can handle and dry-erase, wet-erase, or even permanent markers.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 

log in or register to remove this ad

ccs

41st lv DM
Sound Interesting so far and I am happy that they have the Guts to make some change for the second edition. 8D

One thing that worries me is the 3-Action System. Making Movement cost an Action, does mean that nobody wants to move .. which makes for a static Combat-System. Also 3 Actions will lead to severe decision-paralysis for several of my players. Making different Actions cost different amount of Actions also increases complexity, so does allowing multiple Attacks but making them progressively harder. I hope that it works better in actual play than it sounds to me now.

Harder than: Move action, Full attack, not-full attack (because you've moved etc), fast/swift/free/extra/bonus etc actions (& how many of those you can take/stack), Opprotunity attacks, & assorted feats where some only work as full attacks while others are singles? And then throw in Mythic.

Depending upon your lv, feats, & if you're duel wielding you can already make multiple attacks. At increasing penalties.

So what's your complaint again?
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Aldarc

Legend
Did Paizo learn any lessons? No, guess not.
Stop being so overdramatic. They waited ten years on a slightly revised framework system meant to be backwards compatible 9-year-old system before pumping out a new edition. That is far from being a simple cash grab.

I saw the news last night (European perspective here), and I actually feel relieved by the news. Pathfinder needed an update. D&D 3.0 was my first roleplaying game, and I have played more Pathfinder than I have D&D 5E (so far), so I do have a soft spot for iterations of this game. A lot of the d20 3.X system, however, has been looking a bit haggard in the 18 years of games that have come out since 3.X. Paizo was forced deal with the promise of backwards compatibility with 3.X, which was both a boon and bane in its favor.

The announcement does suggest some 5E elements, but I also recall that many people had also called out how other games had race, background, and class before 5E. This is hardly solely 5E feature, and I don't think that 5E's use of backgrounds is particularly innovative. Also, perhaps because people have short-term memories, don't forget that when 5E was released, there were also many accusations and observations that 5E had "borrowed" design innovations from Pathfinder.

I'm not thrilled with the announcement of level 10 spells; I thought that Starfinder's level 6 spell max was a smart decision from the perspective of simplicity. But I suppose that the spell level is somewhat arbitrary depending on how one distributes the spells among the tiers. I'll wait and see.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Baumi

Adventurer
Harder than: Move action, Full attack, not-full attack (because you've moved etc), fast/swift/free/extra/bonus etc actions (& how many of those you can take/stack), Opprotunity attacks, & assorted feats where some only work as full attacks while others are singles? And then throw in Mythic.

Depending upon your lv, feats, & if you're duel wielding you can already make multiple attacks. At increasing penalties.

So what's your complaint again?

Just because the old Version was even worse, doesn't make the new Version automatically good.

Also making all Actions equal does create new problems, like why would you move if you can attack instead and Spells costing different amount of Actions. Also it makes Actions compete more with each other since the all have the same slot .. wich leads to even harder descicions for those who are already prone to have decision-paralysis.
 

VisanidethDM

First Post
Where does, "You were hit. You were definitely hit. You are suffering physical injury, and you will not be sleeping this off overnight. If you want to heal faster, use magic." fit into the core principles of Pathfinder?

Because I've always seen that as the cornerstone of a world that at least tries to make some sort of sense. It really is the dividing line between suspendable disbelief and simply not caring at all.


How does that reconcile with "You're experienced enough and now you can be hit, definitely hit and suffer from injury 12 times as much as you did a year ago"?

Because the biggest problem of hit points as meat point is exactly that they don't make any sense.
 

VisanidethDM

First Post
Anyways, good luck to Paizo with this. I'm a fan of their APs more than their system, but the idea of selling a new version of a game whose core justification for existing is intercepting the mass of conservative players who didn't want change to begin is already brave, doing so when a perhaps excessively streamlined version of actual D&D is absolutely intercepting all the new audiences while also pleasing the TSR nostalgic is... braver.
 


Aldarc

Legend
Also making all Actions equal does create new problems, like why would you move if you can attack instead and Spells costing different amount of Actions. Also it makes Actions compete more with each other since the all have the same slot .. wich leads to even harder descicions for those who are already prone to have decision-paralysis.
Presumably because you need to go somewhere, maneuver for better positioning, or so you can use your actions more efficiently.
 

VisanidethDM

First Post
Presumably because you need to go somewhere, maneuver for better positioning, or so you can use your actions more efficiently.

We have plenty of examples of systems who work that way. The Divinity series (the last 2 iterations) pretty much function the same way (you have action points but the end results are the same).

I don't think it will make for a fast system, however. Deciding if you should move or not will not be that easy, balancing ranged vs melee won't be either, and I expect a lot of "charge is an action that incorporates move and attack" and people standing still hitting each other to be the standard.

RPGs struggle to motivate players to use move actions, and this goes in the opposite direction by making moving even more expensive.
 

In the past 2 years I've introduced 8 people to RPG's. I prefer Pathfinder, I like its customization and its not reliant on the holy trinity, however, when given the choice to play D&D 5th and Pathfinder, I decided to settle on D&D. As a new player the D&D system is much easier to build characters, and figure out the rules. I look forward to Pathfinder 2.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

The_Gneech

Explorer
As a 5E DM, the news makes me hopeful for less byzantine, more easily convert-and-runnable adventure modules, so I'm glad to hear it. :)

Whether I'll actually get that? Dunno! But I'll keep my eye on it.

-The Gneech
 

I don't keep up with many systems outside of D&D and pathfinder but if the new pathfinder edition is OGL compatible, what does that mean actually? Just that it's D20 based or can they actually come up with their own true system and not rummage around like a retro clone using D20?
 

thzero

First Post
Stop being so overdramatic.

I can be as dramatic or not as I choose.

They waited ten years on a slightly revised framework system meant to be backwards compatible 9-year-old system before pumping out a new edition. That is far from being a simple cash grab.

Simple or complex, and yes there are other factors, wants, needs, etc... still it is a cash grab. The amount of material that Paizo has produced that a lot of folks have bought, well now that because useless going forward - some of the fluff for background since they aren't ripping up their world like Wizards did will most likely hold. But the mechanic part, splat books? Not without conversion which most folks won't do.

That being said, all things come to an end - and it is surprising that they waited this long. Heck, Mutants and Masterminds has basically been through 3 versions in the time, at least one was unnecessary. I'm sure there are other examples. But this has been in the works for some time as witnessed by Starfinder acting basically as a pay-to-play playtest of some of the ideas (kinda in an odd way like Saga SW was for 4e for Wizards).


however, has been looking a bit haggard in the 18 years of games that have come out since 3.X. Paizo was forced deal with the promise of backwards compatibility with 3.X, which was both a boon and bane in its favor.

I would disagree. Is it perfect? No, no its not. But there is never going to be a perfect 'crunchy' game either. However, there is nothing new or truly innovative about 5e. Is there some stuff that could be added or tweaked about PF from 5e? Sure... 10/hour rest mechanic to allow a longer adventuring day. Sure. Maybe unchained take at the wizard/sorcerer/etc. Doesn't require a complete new version.

That isn't to say that 2e won't be a good game - at least they are doing public beta testing and feedback loop, unlike with Starfinder which could have used it.

Paizo was forced deal with the promise of backwards compatibility with 3.X, which was both a boon and bane in its favor.

Its not really backwards compatible. Is it easier to up-convert from 3.0, or 3.5, to PF than say basic/1e/2e or a rolemaster, harn, etc? Yes. It was more because it was familiar enough.
 

Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
No. I have my own opinion believe it or not.

Hello, and welcome to the board.

I think some people are a bit startled that an account who's existed since 2009 would suddenly show up and make this their first post. I guess it means it's something you truly believe in! Any way, I hope you will find that participating is a bit more rewarding than merely lurking - you have the right to share your opinion just like everyone else.
 

Jacob Lewis

Ye Olde GM
I think this is excellent news! And I don't even play D&D anymore! I have a whole lot more confidence in Paizo to put out a quality product that could potentially regain my interest. I'm already seeing some design decisions that are appealing to me, but I just know that damned d20 mechanic is going to keep me from ever truly loving any derived system.

And incidentally, if you're a current PF player and feel like you're being abandoned because of this? Pathfinder has a TON of material to support you and your grandchildren, and--this is very important--it will always be available, at the very least in PDF format! Not only that, but other companies can continue to support PF1 with their products by keeping compliant with the original OGL and the Paizo agreement. You know what fans of 4th Edition got? Unfinished business. Not even an suitable OGL so others may pick up the pieces as Paizo did for 3e.

It pleases me to no end to see that Paizo has not only sustained a good system for this long, retaining such a loyal fanbase, but can also evolve and move forward with what they have done. This is not the desperation of a company floundering under stiff competition. This is a confident publisher finding the perfect time to move forward with their own creation. There is definitely room in the pool for more than one edition, especially if they can each offer something different. D&D is not the big fish in the pond everyone thinks it is. They just want it to be because they don't want them taking it away again.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
<wakes up to a roaring noise in the hills beyond>

"Ma, put the kettle on! I'm headin' out early...there's an EDITION WAR a-comin'!"
 


3catcircus

Adventurer
This could be great news. I love PF, but all of the bolt-on supplements have made it way too complex in actual play and have made it an arms race between player and GM.

What I've seen so far sounds promising, but what Is really like is them to diverge even more from PF1.

-A d20 dice pool system with additional successes adding your results.

-Initiative system based upon actions taking a specific amount of time rather than a fixed amount of actions.

-A true lifepath chargen system.

-Completely skill-based. No classes per se, just skill points in specific skills based upon the activity you are doing for the particular portion of your lifepath. Experience points are used to improve skills.

-A combat system where you have a small fixed number of hit points, various wound thresholds, shock, bleeding out, decreasing performance ass your wounds accumulate, and, for the love of [insert your deific being of choice], where catching on fire or falling from a height are finally something to actually fear.

Basically - I want the Twilight:2013 mechanics adapted for swords&sorcery.
 

thzero

First Post
And incidentally, if you're a current PF player and feel like you're being abandoned because of this? Pathfinder has a TON of material to support you and your grandchildren, and--this is very important--it will always be available, at the very least in PDF format! Not only that, but other companies can continue to support PF1 with their products by keeping compliant with the original OGL and the Paizo agreement. You know what fans of 4th Edition got? Unfinished business. Not even an suitable OGL so others may pick up the pieces as Paizo did for 3e.

It costs Paizo nothing to keep the 1e PDFs available; its not like they have to print new books. PF may not have occurred if Wizards had figured that out (guess they still haven't because there aren't PDFs available of its 5e products). Paizo can't do much about the OGL, but that they are, for now, at least willing to keep the Paizo agreement there to allow people to publish for 1e and indicate its compatible with is a plus. However unless a company is diehard about it, really the lifespan of more 1e material will be last maybe through 2020 before there is enough swell with 2e that people just aren't buying enough 1e stuff to make it viable to produce it. Then again, 2e could completely flop.

But really same can be said for D&D 3.5. It is OGL and could have been supported by other companies. There was some support after 4e started as I recall, but once PF gained traction it was pretty much over. Because PF is OGL, someone could pull a Paizo. But there were several tries of this with 3.5, but since Paizo had existing business (mags, adventure paths, etc.) that had traction, they really had the upper hand on making 3.75, i.e. PF, a reality.

But yes, you are right... fans [all two of them? ;)] of 4e got screwed.
 

thzero

First Post
So go build it... :)

Basically - I want the Twilight:2013 mechanics adapted for swords&sorcery.

Seriously what you are asking for is not PF, its a new game system... which isn't a bad idea, as long as its a supplementary line and/or new revenue stream for the company. I was suprised it took Paizo so long to come out with something like Starfinder, even as poorly as they did with it, to diversify and give them another line of revenue besides just PF (and yes, they sell all sorts of stuff in their store but still).
 


Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition Starter Box

Visit Our Sponsor

Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition Starter Box

An Advertisement

Advertisement4

Top