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Pathfinder 2E Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

Paizo has just announced the Second Edition of its Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Read on for the announcement straight from the horse's mouth. The horse, in this case, being Pathfinder designer Jason Bulmahn. "In 2008, Paizo launched an unprecedented public playtest aimed at updating the third edition rules to make them more fun, easier to learn, and better able to support thrilling fantasy adventures. More than 40,000 gamers just like you joined in the fun by playtesting the new Pathfinder RPG rules and providing feedback, and the rest is gaming history. Now, 10 years later, it's time to put the lessons of the last decade to use and evolve the game once again. It's time for Pathfinder Second Edition!"


PlaytestRulebook.png


Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.



Illustration by Wayne Reynolds​
[h=2]New, but the Same[/h]Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.
[h=2]Building a Character[/h]It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.
[h=2]Playing the Game[/h]We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!
Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!
[h=2]Monsters and Treasure[/h]The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.
We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!
[h=2]What's Next?[/h]There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!
Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!
[h=2]We Need You![/h]All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Features[/h]The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

  • 10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists
  • Alchemists in Core
  • Archetypes and Multiclassing
  • Class Changes
  • Classic Monsters and Magic
  • Clean, Modular Information-Based Design
  • Combat Maneuvers that Rock
  • Designed for All Levels of Play
  • Easier to Play
  • Goblin Player Characters
  • Golarion-Infused
  • Heroic Storytelling
  • Innovative Initiative
  • More Customization
  • New Background System
  • Pathfinder Society
  • Production Values
  • Race Changes and Feats
  • Rebalanced Magic Items
  • Simplified Actions
  • Streamlined Proficiencies
  • Support
  • True to Pathfinder
  • Wayne Reynolds Art

[h=2]Compatibility?[/h]The big question -- backwards compatibility? Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Products[/h]All Pathfinder Playtest products will be released as FREE downloads exclusively at paizo.com on August 2, 2018. On the same day, we'll release limited-edition print versions of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, and Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack for players and Game Masters seeking the ultimate playtest experience. These print editions will be available for preorder from local retailers now and paizo.com between March 20 and May 1. We'll also have copies at the Paizo booth during Gen Con 2018 in Indianapolis on August 2–5.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook[/h]This massive 400-page rulebook contains everything you need to create characters and run Pathfinder Playtest adventures from levels 1–20! With gorgeous new illustrations by Wayne Reynolds, the Playtest Rulebook lights the path leading directly to Pathfinder's future. Available in three editions: softcover, hardcover, and deluxe hardcover with foil-debossed faux-leather cover and ribbon bookmark.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn[/h]This 96-page super-adventure contains seven multi-encounter scenarios designed to introduce the new rules and put them to the ultimate test on your game table! With adventures spanning all 20 levels and featuring most of the game's newest rules, Doomsday Dawn provides a thrilling tour of the new rules, and of the Pathfinder world itself!
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack[/h]Throw your heroes into the action with this collection of two double-sided Flip-Mats for use with the Playtest Adventure. These beautiful full-color maps measure 24" x 30" unfolded and set the scene for climactic battles that will determine the future of Pathfinder! The maps' erasable surface can handle and dry-erase, wet-erase, or even permanent markers.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

ehren37

Explorer
Man, I feel for Paizo. They're stuck between their hardcore fans, and their more casual player. The latter was likely in high school or college when they started PF, and now just doesn't have time to keep up with the bloat and minutia now that they have more demands in career, family, etc. Casual new players are now more likely to go to 5E anyways... D&D has brand recognition, isn't intentionally filled with trap options as a barrier to entry, and doesn't require a spreadsheet to manage your character. So they're facing attrition and a weaker flow of replacement players. Simpler would do better for them, but risk alienating their base.

I run a lot of PF adventures in my 5E game, so wish them well on this. Hopefully they at least ditch the "full attack action" to not screw another generation of players who dare to dream of a decent melee character instead of yet another OP caster.
 

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Ghal Maraz

Explorer
This could be great news. I love PF, but all of the bolt-on supplements have made it way too complex in actual play and have made it an arms race between player and GM.

What I've seen so far sounds promising, but what Is really like is them to diverge even more from PF1.

-A d20 dice pool system with additional successes adding your results.

-Initiative system based upon actions taking a specific amount of time rather than a fixed amount of actions.

-A true lifepath chargen system.

-Completely skill-based. No classes per se, just skill points in specific skills based upon the activity you are doing for the particular portion of your lifepath. Experience points are used to improve skills.

-A combat system where you have a small fixed number of hit points, various wound thresholds, shock, bleeding out, decreasing performance ass your wounds accumulate, and, for the love of [insert your deific being of choice], where catching on fire or falling from a height are finally something to actually fear.

Basically - I want the Twilight:2013 mechanics adapted for swords&sorcery.

I'm certainly not an expert, but looking at your wishlist, I suggest to you to take a good look at the recent "Conan: Adventures in an Age Undreamed of" by Modiphius. It seems to me it should scratch almost all of your itches.
 

Ghost2020

Explorer
They waited long enough to do a new edition. No one could blame them at this point.

If one is shocked by new editions and cries out "cash grab" then they must be new to the roleplaying industry. New editions happen. That's how game design moves forward.


I hope that Paizo goes big and bold with PF2. I hope that they don't focus on backwards compatibility and just design PF2 as needed.

Let PF1 go, it has a literal mountain of material. There isn't a lot left to cover with that edition.
It's been a helluva long run, but it's ok to leave it behind and move forward.

I'm excited to see what they do, and I'm looking forward to seeing the playtest materials.
 

Erechel

Explorer
Ha. I think that most of us see it coming.

Although there are some (pretty valid) points to take in account, the elephant of the room being: Is it a smart move?

I, for one, could try Pathfinder 2, although I'm not sure of it, because I already play 5e and pretty much fills my needs of generic fantasy. I really didn't like 3.5 when it came out, and Pathfinder didn't sell me better. For me, it was a boring, slow, redundant and unbalanced game. I'm not saying that is necessarily a bad game, but it isn't the game for me. It would be hard for Paizo to sell me their product unless there is a big incentive (heck, I'm not even interested in Starfinder because of the innecesary crunch/ fixed bonus things, although the theme might be interesting). And, like me, the people who actually play 5e won't be incentivized to play a game that doesn't offer a fairly different perspective, because we already play 5e.

And the second part is the Paizo fanbase. Paizo's fans draw heavily from the people who really liked D&D 3rd Edition, people that enjoyed what I've perceived as weaknesses in the system, and that the 2nd edition actually agrees with me. I've been seeing a lot of angry people that say "who! it is 5th Edition all over again! You ruined my game!!" or "you are dumbing down the game! give me the crunchy chips!". It won't matter if the game is actually excellent, many people who form the Paizo's fanbase will not like it, and will feel betrayed, only because it isn't the game they already like. And they'll perceive weaknesses by confirmation bias, much like they find 5e as a "dumbed down" version of D&D. I'm not saying that they are correct (in fact, I believe them wrong), but they are an important part of their market share. This is one comment in the official forum that highlight what I'm saying:
[FONT=&amp]
Malovec said:
Sales low? Going to go the way of 5th edition and dumb down the game for the masses? Going to give us a half ass way to convert our beloved games and characters? Leaving it up to us to make the choices? Go ahead, please go the way of 5th edition D&D you traitors

Although it is necessary (and many, many people see it coming) to update a game that had too much baggage, it will be harder than the last time. History wise, Pathfinder started as a reaction against 4th edition, and most of the customer base was the people upset by Wizards changing the game (for worse or better). Many of the people that didn't like the specific way that Wizards took in 4th edition were very happy with 5th edition, and thus, the proportion of people that liked Pathfinder because it was the game they knew and love (3rd Ed) grew. 5th Ed isn't going anywhere, is more popular than ever before. It already outselled 3rd edition. It isn't the same scenario of 2009, where many people angrily turn over WOTC.

But I believe that Paizo already knows that. My advice: make a better game. Make a GREAT game, which offers something that D&D doesn't offer. "Customization" isn't the actual selling point. D&D 5th has lot of customization, so much more than core PF1 only in the PHB, and people still complain "lack of customization" as to be a great fault of D&D. Of course, don't ditch customization, but don't sell it as it is the big point: the people that appreciate it in PF is the people who got tons of books, not only the core. Yes, streamlining and avoiding trap options is necessary, but it isn't a selling point neither: you are being accused of "dumbing down" the game for the hardcore base, and we already got that in 5e. The big point: sell something new. Sell something that 5th edition don't have, and can't have. You can begin with this:
[/FONT]
Paizo said:
[FONT=&amp]Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death."[/FONT]

This is something that D&D is lousy to do. Diseases, poisons and curses are merely a small tax in D&D: A paladin can cure any of them in the blink of an eye. Create non-combat challenges. Increase deadliness. Detail environmental challenges. Increase the severity of wounds. Change a little the focus of the game from combat to whole adventure. Support types of games that D&D don't. That would sell me the game, if the other, necessary changes, are met.

Sorry if I sound cynic or aggressive. Wish you the best.
 

Zaukrie

New Publisher
Interesting! Fifth edition, for me, is a bit generic. I prefer a more tactical game in combat, than I feel most monsters currently add. And the magic classes don't seem unique enough, in rules, not story. There are a ton of great games right now, it will be fun to see how paizo tries to make the game interesting, and different. Looking forward to it.
 

Erik Mona

Adventurer
I don't think that's clear at all. Certainly not my takeaway from it. In fact, I'd be surprised if PF2 used a single word from the 5E SRD.

It doesn't. This thing is far less 5e-inspired than people are assuming based on the first day of information we've dropped and the use of some similar terminology.
 

Pauper

That guy, who does that thing.
Shasarak said:
I do agree with you that a single year seems....unrealistically confident.

Well, the original PF public playtest ran for a year, and they're not totally re-inventing the wheel here, so I'm guessing they feel as though the public part of the PF 2E playtest can be done in that time.

The D&D 5e playtest ran for two years, which, while it might have led to a better game, was probably a bad business decision, as 4e product sales seemed to dry up once the 5e playtest was rolling. There's an argument to be made that WotC only survived through to the release of 5e by dumping a ton of TSR back-catalog product onto Drive-Thru RPG and doing similar 'nostalgia products' like the Against the Slave Lords hardcover. Paizo doesn't have that kind of back-catalog to fall back on, and I'm guessing they don't want to rely on Starfinder to carry them through a second year of PF playtesting.

Just my $0.02US.

--
Pauper
 

And not a single mention of alignment!

Times are good in the fantasy dungeon-crawling RPG sphere.

I'm really excited to see more of this, It looks like it could be everything I want out of the genre.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I’m very skeptical of the action economy presented.

Bonus actions are one of the best things about the various games that have them, from 4e and 5e, to saga, even to PF’s less well used swift action. The idea of most spells using 2/3 of your turn to cast, so all you can do is fast fireball and move OR do a minor thing, is very unappealing to me.

I’ll check it out and provide feedback, but that part jumps out at me immediately as a very big potential negative.
 

Erechel

Explorer
It doesn't. This thing is far less 5e-inspired than people are assuming based on the first day of information we've dropped and the use of some similar terminology.

Yes, but the information you give is scarce, and sounds a lot like 5th Edition, Erik. And given that Pathfinder was a spin-off of 3rd Edition rules, you can't blame us for thinking that way. People is always going to assume things and link facts. And in this case, we have strong motives to do it. I'm not expecting Advantage/Disadvantage, but the streamlining of actions sounds a lot like Action/Bonus Action/Move and one Reaction

But the fact you are actually talking to us says a lot in your behalf.
 


Gorrstagg

First Post
As a guy who's played Dungeons & Dragons since 1982, and played every iteration all the way through Pathfinder into Starfinder. I've found 5E D&D to be the most streamlined and smoothest edition to date. I love what they learned and applied to the game system, the bounded math, with fewer modifiers ever to worry about, that it can be played without ever awarding a single magic item, is fantastic. My only preference is that it had a little more crunch for characters per level, ala Pathfinder. I loved the granularity of Pathfinder, but abhor it's roots to 3.5 and how iterative attacks have negative modifiers to hit. I adore the smoothness associated with combat in 5E, some of it's innovations such as not provoking attacks of opportunity if you stay in base to base contact is fantastic. I loved it so much I ported it over to our Starfinder campaign.

But that's where I find some problems as it were.. I would love if Starfinder was closer to 5E but with a bit more crunch for characters, but at the end of the day, I make the game work and tell a story.

I'm cautiously optimistic here with Pathfinder 2nd Edition. I hope they learn from 5E, advantage & disadvantage, mechanical bonus tied to proficiency & level, that they learn from Starfinder about stats and their inflation. 5e is arbitrary about stopping stats at 20 without exceptional magic/boons. But they did that to avoid too much math/modifiers at the table. As a 36 year DM, if we can keep the modifiers and math simple, it will help a variety of players remember all the damn modifiers.

10th level spells? Sure, why not, one spell level every two character levels, sure easy and makes at least some semblance of sense.

Action economy, 3 actions and 1 reaction, I'm fine with that too. Though saying an Action, Bonus Action, and Move, are equally simple. But whatever.

The only thing I hope they learn from Starfinder is that assigning levels to weapons and gear and then some arbitrary wealth value makes little sense, and actually are a huge turn off for flavor reasons but done solely for a mechanical reason, may make sense from a design perspective, but feel about as soulless as 4E D&D outside of combat. Oh and limiting spell options in Starfinder to just a few ala a Sorcerer, felt and still feels an unnecessary limitation.

I'm also not stoked though upon hearing that lower level spells diminish in power. Learn from 5E, PLEASE, that a spell increases in function the longer a caster has it, and tying it to their level felt liberating. Do NOT punish the caster player because they are forced to use their cantrips, tying a common attack spell to it and it getting better and can fill in for damage dealing when their other options run out is great. When I looked at the new spells for Starfinder, I was like who's the guy who hates on the casters? Their cantrips are jokes, they don't level and thus their utility will fade into obscurity to the point of leaving the caster to rely upon guns... which is that great meme of Gandalf with a Shotgun... sure it was funny then, but to flaunt it proudly as a thumbing nose and comments of Elderberries at other editions, is to do it simply out of spite. This I hope is where Pathfinder 2nd edition evolves past this notion of diminished power crap.

Again, a lot of this is just my opinion and a little ventish I agree. I look forward to trying it, both from the perspective of the player and as a DM.
 

Jharet

Explorer
I love Pathfinder and wish the Paizo crew success, but I can't help from feeling like I'm sitting here listening to my girlfriend explain how happy we'll be with her new boyfriend.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I’m very skeptical of the action economy presented.

Bonus actions are one of the best things about the various games that have them, from 4e and 5e, to saga, even to PF’s less well used swift action. The idea of most spells using 2/3 of your turn to cast, so all you can do is fast fireball and move OR do a minor thing, is very unappealing to me.

I’ll check it out and provide feedback, but that part jumps out at me immediately as a very big potential negative.
I'd say it's a positive, in that anything that reins in spellcasters in a 3e/PF-based system is a positive by default.

Now if they make it so that casting is also much easier to interrupt and that you can't cast at all if under melee attack (i.e. no 'combat casting' or equivalent) then they'll really be on to something. :)
 

MechaTarrasque

Adventurer
I don't think there is much disagreement that three of the four big classes are in need of some serious help.

They probably want to forget that they ever made a summoner (I kid, I kid, just a little); if they wanted to be pretty wild, they could merge the cleric and the summoner: your god gives you a pet, you can't zap anything, but you can boost your pet or heal the fighter.

Semi-more seriously, it will be interesting to see what stuff makes the transition.
 

Erik Mona

Adventurer
Yes, but the information you give is scarce, and sounds a lot like 5th Edition, Erik. And given that Pathfinder was a spin-off of 3rd Edition rules, you can't blame us for thinking that way. People is always going to assume things and link facts. And in this case, we have strong motives to do it. I'm not expecting Advantage/Disadvantage, but the streamlining of actions sounds a lot like Action/Bonus Action/Move and one Reaction

But the fact you are actually talking to us says a lot in your behalf.

I appreciate the sentiment, and I absolutely don't blame you (or anyone) for jumping to conclusions based on the first day's necessarily limited info dump. The revised action economy is very similar to the one we introduced in Pathfinder Unchained a few years ago, and any similarities to 5e are coincidental.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I'd say it's a positive, in that anything that reins in spellcasters in a 3e/PF-based system is a positive by default.

Now if they make it so that casting is also much easier to interrupt and that you can't cast at all if under melee attack (i.e. no 'combat casting' or equivalent) then they'll really be on to something. :)

That isn’t s good way o find a balance, though. And what you describe at the end sounds like a recipe for unplayable bad casters.
 

ehren37

Explorer
I’m very skeptical of the action economy presented.

Bonus actions are one of the best things about the various games that have them, from 4e and 5e, to saga, even to PF’s less well used swift action. The idea of most spells using 2/3 of your turn to cast, so all you can do is fast fireball and move OR do a minor thing, is very unappealing to me.

I’ll check it out and provide feedback, but that part jumps out at me immediately as a very big potential negative.

How is "only" getting to cast a spell and move a negative? Anything to gut the power of casters in PF is a positive IMO. High level spells should ideally take multiple actions (rounds) to pull off. Anyone masochistic enough to dare play a melee has to eat a ton of feats to move before and after a single flippin attack!
 
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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
I have to admit that I am a little confused why some people seem to see 10 levels of spells (vs 9) to be a big deal (either positive or negative)...
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
That isn’t s good way o find a balance, though. And what you describe at the end sounds like a recipe for unplayable bad casters.
If by 'unplayable' you mean they have to take care when casting and can't always do what they want when they want how they want then yeah, gimme.

Ancalagon said:
I have to admit that I am a little confused why some people seem to see 10 levels of spells (vs 9) to be a big deal (either positive or negative)...
Ah, you see - they're just setting it up so that in eight years when PF3 arrives it'll go to 11...
 

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