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Pathfinder 2E Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

Paizo has just announced the Second Edition of its Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Read on for the announcement straight from the horse's mouth. The horse, in this case, being Pathfinder designer Jason Bulmahn. "In 2008, Paizo launched an unprecedented public playtest aimed at updating the third edition rules to make them more fun, easier to learn, and better able to support thrilling fantasy adventures. More than 40,000 gamers just like you joined in the fun by playtesting the new Pathfinder RPG rules and providing feedback, and the rest is gaming history. Now, 10 years later, it's time to put the lessons of the last decade to use and evolve the game once again. It's time for Pathfinder Second Edition!"


PlaytestRulebook.png


Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.



Illustration by Wayne Reynolds​
[h=2]New, but the Same[/h]Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.
[h=2]Building a Character[/h]It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.
[h=2]Playing the Game[/h]We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!
Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!
[h=2]Monsters and Treasure[/h]The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.
We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!
[h=2]What's Next?[/h]There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!
Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!
[h=2]We Need You![/h]All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Features[/h]The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

  • 10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists
  • Alchemists in Core
  • Archetypes and Multiclassing
  • Class Changes
  • Classic Monsters and Magic
  • Clean, Modular Information-Based Design
  • Combat Maneuvers that Rock
  • Designed for All Levels of Play
  • Easier to Play
  • Goblin Player Characters
  • Golarion-Infused
  • Heroic Storytelling
  • Innovative Initiative
  • More Customization
  • New Background System
  • Pathfinder Society
  • Production Values
  • Race Changes and Feats
  • Rebalanced Magic Items
  • Simplified Actions
  • Streamlined Proficiencies
  • Support
  • True to Pathfinder
  • Wayne Reynolds Art

[h=2]Compatibility?[/h]The big question -- backwards compatibility? Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Products[/h]All Pathfinder Playtest products will be released as FREE downloads exclusively at paizo.com on August 2, 2018. On the same day, we'll release limited-edition print versions of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, and Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack for players and Game Masters seeking the ultimate playtest experience. These print editions will be available for preorder from local retailers now and paizo.com between March 20 and May 1. We'll also have copies at the Paizo booth during Gen Con 2018 in Indianapolis on August 2–5.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook[/h]This massive 400-page rulebook contains everything you need to create characters and run Pathfinder Playtest adventures from levels 1–20! With gorgeous new illustrations by Wayne Reynolds, the Playtest Rulebook lights the path leading directly to Pathfinder's future. Available in three editions: softcover, hardcover, and deluxe hardcover with foil-debossed faux-leather cover and ribbon bookmark.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn[/h]This 96-page super-adventure contains seven multi-encounter scenarios designed to introduce the new rules and put them to the ultimate test on your game table! With adventures spanning all 20 levels and featuring most of the game's newest rules, Doomsday Dawn provides a thrilling tour of the new rules, and of the Pathfinder world itself!
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack[/h]Throw your heroes into the action with this collection of two double-sided Flip-Mats for use with the Playtest Adventure. These beautiful full-color maps measure 24" x 30" unfolded and set the scene for climactic battles that will determine the future of Pathfinder! The maps' erasable surface can handle and dry-erase, wet-erase, or even permanent markers.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 

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Russ Morrissey

Russ Morrissey

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
I dont know if I see this as being too much different from the normal process of being able to cast fireball and move.

In 5e, you can still use a bonus action, if you have anything to do with one. The rules regarding bonus and action spells are clunky for no good reason, and need a revision (even if in the form of an Optional rules Variant), but they do allow you to move, cast as a bonus action and do something else (maybe a cantrip) as an action, or cast as an action and then do whatever you’ve got for a bonus. Some characters this comes up a lot, others it’s rare. Either way, it’s a nice (and very easy to grok) dileniation of actions.

One other problem with it that I haven’t mentioned is that it creates more book keeping than just having a small number of action types at 1/round each, plus movement that you can use in any increments you want.
 

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Ancalagon

Dusty Dragon
As far as reducing caster dominance - ah yes, the tier list - I think it's important to remember that the root of the problem is *not* raw power, it's versatility. A high level caster is like a swiss army knife, able to tackle any problem. If casters had narrower focus, it would reduce their versatility, thus their potency.

I'm concerned by the comment that lower level spells will lose utility, as this will seriously impact "partial casters" and multi class characters the most - which are not the real problem IMO.
 

Wrathamon

Adventurer
I seriously not liking that they are making a paid playtest with a special edition hardback book ... feels like a money grab on their most devoted fans who will buy this and in a year buy another book that is the final version. Feels icky to me.

I also feel its messaging is hey wotc has said what they would do in the next edition (different initiative, no bonus actions, etc) and jumping to that now before they do.

This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?
 

Olaf the Stout

Adventurer
Although I agree with you, note that the guy you are responding to was referring to the spell (which was a different kind of disturbing) and not the "act of worship" required of this thing's followers. Wrong comparison.

Ok, fair enough. I think the comparison still holds up with the spell, which I think is granted to followers of the Folce:

Unnatural lust
Your target is filled with lust and desire for a single creature or object as designated by you at the time of casting. That creature or object must be within the spell’s range and perceivable by the target of the spell. The target is filled with the compulsion to rush to the subject of its lust and passionately kiss or caress that subject on its next turn, taking no other actions. If the target would not normally have lustful feelings toward the designated creature or object, it receives a +4 bonus on its saving throw.

Is it something the charm spell could do? Probably.

Is having this sort of thing a possible option of the charm spell the same as creating a spell that is specifically designed to do this? Not at all.
 

werecorpse

Adventurer
I seriously not liking that they are making a paid playtest with a special edition hardback book ... feels like a money grab on their most devoted fans who will buy this and in a year buy another book that is the final version. Feels icky to me.

I also feel its messaging is hey wotc has said what they would do in the next edition (different initiative, no bonus actions, etc) and jumping to that now before they do.

This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?

The PDF Playtest stuff is free isn't it?

The hardback Playtest seems to me to be for a select fanbase.
 

I'm concerned by the comment that lower level spells will lose utility, as this will seriously impact "partial casters" and multi class characters the most - which are not the real problem IMO.
That is a valid concern, but we don't really know what they might have in place to address it. It's entirely possible that spell level access will primarily be gated by character level, rather than class, such that partial casters and pure casters are still casting the same level of spell with the difference being more about frequency.
 

Olaf the Stout

Adventurer
I think my basic problem with your objection is that, even ignoring the fact that this is the Book of the Damned, first the DM has to let the Player create a character that worships a Daemon.

And if the DM is happy for characters to worship Daemons then honestly what does he expect is going to happen next?

But in any case, what is to stop a Player from having their character and I quote, "Stalk a child and make him witness or endure a horrifically brutal event. Promise him that you will return."

I get that it's a roleplaying game. So players could do many sick and horrible things without the need for any rules around it.

The fact that they could already do that does not make it ok for a company to specifically come up with rules to incentivise doing those things. It's enabling behavior as it allows the player to say, "Oh, it's not me. I'm just doing this because it's what followers of this demon are meant to do. I mean, look, there's rules around it and everything. The designers want us to do it, otherwise they wouldn't have made rules about it. Plus I wanted the +2 Charisma bonus."
 

Shasarak

First Post
In 5e, you can still use a bonus action, if you have anything to do with one. The rules regarding bonus and action spells are clunky for no good reason, and need a revision (even if in the form of an Optional rules Variant), but they do allow you to move, cast as a bonus action and do something else (maybe a cantrip) as an action, or cast as an action and then do whatever you’ve got for a bonus. Some characters this comes up a lot, others it’s rare. Either way, it’s a nice (and very easy to grok) dileniation of actions.

One other problem with it that I haven’t mentioned is that it creates more book keeping than just having a small number of action types at 1/round each, plus movement that you can use in any increments you want.

I am not sure about how 5e bonus action would work in PF2, but I imagine that you are still going to see spells like Haste there so therefore there must be going to be a way to get extra actions.

I think that making everything an action is less book keeping because you dont have to worry if something is a move equivalent, or a quick or free or whatever action. I remember the old Attack/Move/Minor days were a bit of a PitA when everyone was trying to make sure they got all their actions in (and of course some classes did not even have Minor actions)
 

Shasarak

First Post
I get that it's a roleplaying game. So players could do many sick and horrible things without the need for any rules around it.

The fact that they could already do that does not make it ok for a company to specifically come up with rules to incentivise doing those things. It's enabling behavior as it allows the player to say, "Oh, it's not me. I'm just doing this because it's what followers of this demon are meant to do. I mean, look, there's rules around it and everything. The designers want us to do it, otherwise they wouldn't have made rules about it. Plus I wanted the +2 Charisma bonus."

Players were trying to use that excuse 30 years ago for why their Thief would pickpocket the party. Did not work then and does not work now.
 

ShinHakkaider

Adventurer
This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?

They had a hardcopy that you had to pay for for the original Pathfinder playtest too over ten years ago. This is not a new thing.
The PDF for the playtest is FREE. So I'm not sure what the complaint is. If you dont want to pay for the playtest download the free version in August. If you want a tangible version either print out the PDF yourself and have it bound yourself OR pay for a hardcopy.

They know that there is a portion of thier fanbase who wont look at a PDF so they produce hardcopies but not for free.
They know that there is a portion of their fanbase who wont pay for a hardcopy playtest version so they have a free PDF.
They know that there is a portion of thier fanbase who are collectors and will scoop up that Hardcover collector's version.

Either way you'll have access to SOME version of a playtest copy.
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
I'm not on-board with "standard" spells requiring multiple rounds to cast. So maybe this isn't a great place to comment. But I will offer that if Billy is walking away from the table then the DM isn't doing a very good job. I completely believe that a well run game can, and should, be just as engaging as a great movie. And further enhanced by the fact the player has skin in the game, even when it is not actively their turn.

The DM is only so mighty. If the Game disengages Billy from play, that's on the Game. A good DM can only do so much with a bad system.

I mean lets look at it this way: lets say you have 5 people at the table, and you give them each 1 minute to take their turns (DM included). That means Billy's turn comes up once every 4 minutes. If all Billy does on his turn is say "I'm still casting Fireball" and then goes back to playing on his phone or getting a drink or whatever, then Bill isn't really playing the game. The DM can attempt to engage him by say, having his character react to the situation, but Bill's choice here is fairly limited and in most editions "reacting" to events while spellcasting risks losing the spell. So now not only does Bill have to "sit out" for 20 minutes, if the Dm does engage him, it's by saying "Hey Billy, you know all that time you spent casting BIGSPELL? Well make me this save or lose your spell!" For...4 rounds? Billy's engagement in the game has gone from "I want to shoot a spell!" to "I need to rely on random check or else I'm going to waste a half-hour of my life.

Again, the DM has only so much power within a bad system.
 

Kurviak

Explorer
I seriously not liking that they are making a paid playtest with a special edition hardback book ... feels like a money grab on their most devoted fans who will buy this and in a year buy another book that is the final version. Feels icky to me.

I also feel its messaging is hey wotc has said what they would do in the next edition (different initiative, no bonus actions, etc) and jumping to that now before they do.

This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?

The pdfs will be free though
 

BryonD

Hero
The DM is only so mighty. If the Game disengages Billy from play, that's on the Game. A good DM can only do so much with a bad system.

I mean lets look at it this way: lets say you have 5 people at the table, and you give them each 1 minute to take their turns (DM included). That means Billy's turn comes up once every 4 minutes. If all Billy does on his turn is say "I'm still casting Fireball" and then goes back to playing on his phone or getting a drink or whatever, then Bill isn't really playing the game. The DM can attempt to engage him by say, having his character react to the situation, but Bill's choice here is fairly limited and in most editions "reacting" to events while spellcasting risks losing the spell. So now not only does Bill have to "sit out" for 20 minutes, if the Dm does engage him, it's by saying "Hey Billy, you know all that time you spent casting BIGSPELL? Well make me this save or lose your spell!" For...4 rounds? Billy's engagement in the game has gone from "I want to shoot a spell!" to "I need to rely on random check or else I'm going to waste a half-hour of my life.

Again, the DM has only so much power within a bad system.
I agree that a bad system is a bad system. But I don't agree that this example in the least. You have completely neglected to offer any information about what else is happening, thus your example creates a false idea that there is nothing to engage or entertain Billy. If THAT is true, the it IS the DM's fault. Being engaged in the game, entertained, having fun, whatever, should NEVER be constrained to just those things a single player's individual character is doing. If each player isn't enthralled by the larger story then the DM isn't living up to what could be.
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
I agree that a bad system is a bad system. But I don't agree that this example in the least. You have completely neglected to offer any information about what else is happening, thus your example creates a false idea that there is nothing to engage or entertain Billy. If THAT is true, the it IS the DM's fault. Being engaged in the game, entertained, having fun, whatever, should NEVER be constrained to just those things a single player's individual character is doing. If each player isn't enthralled by the larger story then the DM isn't living up to what could be.

I'm not saying you can't be engaged in a movie, but there's a different type of engagement in a movie, than a game and a game can't rely on movie-style engagement (which is non-interactive), just as a movie can't rely on game-style engagement (which is interactive). It is important in game design to keep each player engaged, because fundamentally, players are unreliable actors. The game can't assume that Bob is going to do something entertaining, or that Joe or Sue or Frank will either. The only thing the game can do is engage the player in question directly. Attempting to rely on inherently unreliable actors to engage Billy is not a good way to keep Billy engaged in the game.

I mean, what if we had two spellcasters? Lets expand this situation a bit.
Billy the Mage is casting Fireball, it takes 5 rounds.
Joe the Cleric is casting Heal, it takes 4 rounds.
Frank the Fighter gets to Hit Things once a round.
Sue the Rogue is trying to sneak up.

For 4 rounds, only two of the players are really "playing" the game.

The DM having an exciting story is great and all, but we don't need mechanics for a great story. We need mechanics for a great game.
 

Olaf the Stout

Adventurer
Well, the original PF public playtest ran for a year, and they're not totally re-inventing the wheel here, so I'm guessing they feel as though the public part of the PF 2E playtest can be done in that time.

The D&D 5e playtest ran for two years, which, while it might have led to a better game, was probably a bad business decision, as 4e product sales seemed to dry up once the 5e playtest was rolling. There's an argument to be made that WotC only survived through to the release of 5e by dumping a ton of TSR back-catalog product onto Drive-Thru RPG and doing similar 'nostalgia products' like the Against the Slave Lords hardcover. Paizo doesn't have that kind of back-catalog to fall back on, and I'm guessing they don't want to rely on Starfinder to carry them through a second year of PF playtesting.

Just my $0.02US.

--
Pauper

I potentially disagree about the 5E 2 year playtest being a bad business decision. If the length of the playtest led to WotC coming up with the slow-burn business model that they have for 5E, then I think it was worth it from a business perspective.

5E has so far survived 3 1/2 years with minimal additional splatbooks and no revisions. Compare that to the 3E-4E era.

3E didn't even last 3 1/2 years.
3.5E was still going after 3 1/2 years, but 4E was announced as being in development not long after the 4 year mark (and I can't see 6E being announced in the next 12 months).
4E lasted about 2 years before Essentials was released.
Essentials was only about 1 1/2 years old before 5E was announced as being in development.

Considering the massive slow down in sales that occurs between announcement of a new edition and the release of that edition, and the extra development cost of creating a new edition, I can understand why a business would want to have as long as possible between new editions, even after taking into account the increased sales figures whenever a new edition is released.
 

Kaodi

Adventurer
I wonder if 10th level spells are in fact 9th level spells with the conceit of 0-level spells filed off. But having spells actually refer to your class level instead of some separate level list would be cool with me.

As for magic - maybe you guys are looking at it the wrong way around. You could always go with a system where you can cast whatever the Hell you want but then you have to wait before you can cast something *big* again. Like, we are ambushed by an orc raiding party and I panic and throw a fireball into their midst and then during the next round I have to make due with more basic spells while I refocus my mind enough for a lighting bolt. So you are never stuck doing nothing but you cannot constantly do your best something.
 

Kaodi

Adventurer
I wonder too if the reason that the Pathfinder SRD has not been updated in forever is that work is already underway on the P2e SRD.

Also, I suppose that a new system for creating monsters means that "ordinary" folks will not be saddle with their own weird subsystem of classes again either.
 

Olaf the Stout

Adventurer
I seriously not liking that they are making a paid playtest with a special edition hardback book ... feels like a money grab on their most devoted fans who will buy this and in a year buy another book that is the final version. Feels icky to me.

I also feel its messaging is hey wotc has said what they would do in the next edition (different initiative, no bonus actions, etc) and jumping to that now before they do.

This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?

They are releasing free playtest PDFs. So if you want access to the playtest materials you won't have to pay anything for them.

In addition, it's not as if it's a surprise that the playtest rulebook will have a limited shelf life. So if someone decides to buy it, they are doing so with the knowledge that a revised version will be released just 1 year later. So anyone buying the special edition hardback version of the playtest book obviously feels that it is worth spending that money.
 

Arilyn

Hero
I seriously not liking that they are making a paid playtest with a special edition hardback book ... feels like a money grab on their most devoted fans who will buy this and in a year buy another book that is the final version. Feels icky to me.

I also feel its messaging is hey wotc has said what they would do in the next edition (different initiative, no bonus actions, etc) and jumping to that now before they do.

This whole thing feels bad to me for some reason. I dont know if its just a PR thing that isnt working for me or if there is something just not authentic about paizo now. They roll out so many products, a pay for a playtest book, what's next?

As has been mentioned by others the book is there if you want to buy it. I wouldn't but if others want to, doesn't bother me.
PF is ten years old, so it is not a big surprise that it is being updated. The idea that Paizo is trying to grab WOTC ideas before WOTC can utilize them is silly. The Paizo designers love PF and are invested in their game. They are not going to seize on 5e. Listening to the podcast of the new rules definitely points to an updated PF, not some sort of 5.5 clone.
 


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