Pathfinder 2E Paizo Announces Pathfinder 2nd Edition!

Paizo has just announced the Second Edition of its Pathfinder Roleplaying Game! Read on for the announcement straight from the horse's mouth. The horse, in this case, being Pathfinder designer Jason Bulmahn. "In 2008, Paizo launched an unprecedented public playtest aimed at updating the third edition rules to make them more fun, easier to learn, and better able to support thrilling fantasy adventures. More than 40,000 gamers just like you joined in the fun by playtesting the new Pathfinder RPG rules and providing feedback, and the rest is gaming history. Now, 10 years later, it's time to put the lessons of the last decade to use and evolve the game once again. It's time for Pathfinder Second Edition!"


PlaytestRulebook.png


Welcome to the next evolution of the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game!

Just shy of 10 years ago, on March 18th, 2008, we asked you to take a bold step with us and download the Alpha Playtest PDF for Pathfinder First Edition. Over the past decade, we've learned a lot about the game and the people who play it. We've talked with you on forums, we've gamed with you at conventions, and we've watched you play online and in person at countless venues. We went from updating mechanics to inventing new ones, adding a breadth of options to the game and making the system truly our own. We've made mistakes, and we've had huge triumphs. Now it is time to take all of that knowledge and make the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game even better.

By now, you've probably read all about the upcoming launch of the Playtest version of the game set to release on August 2nd, 2018 (but just in case you haven't, click here). In the weeks and months leading up to that release, we are going give you an in-depth look at this game, previewing all 12 of the classes and examining many of the most fundamental changes to the game. Of course, that is a long time to wait to get a complete picture, so I wanted to take this opportunity to give you insight into the game, how it works, and why we made the changes that we made. We will be covering these in much more detail later, but we thought it might be useful to give a general overview right now.



Illustration by Wayne Reynolds​
[h=2]New, but the Same[/h]Our first goal was to make Pathfinder Second Edition feel just like the game you know and love. That means that as a player, you need to be able to make the choices that allow you to build the character you want to play. Similarly, as a Game Master, you need to have the tools and the support to tell the story you want to tell. The rules that make up the game have to fundamentally still fill the same role they did before, even if some of the mechanics behind them are different.
[h=2]Building a Character[/h]It's worth taking a moment to talk about how characters are built, because we spent a lot of time making this process smoother and more intuitive. You start by selecting your ancestry (which used to be called race), figuring out where you came from and what sorts of basic statistics you have. Next you decide on your background, representing how you were raised and what you did before taking up the life of an adventurer. Finally, you select your class, the profession you have dedicated yourself to as an intrepid explorer. Each one of these choices is very important, modifying your starting ability scores, giving you starting proficiencies and class skills, and opening up entire feat chains tailored to your character.

After making the big choices that define your character, you have a variety of smaller choices to make, including assigning skill proficiencies, picking an ancestry feat, buying gear, and deciding on the options presented by your class. Finally, after deciding on all of your choices, the only thing left to do is figure out all of your bonuses, which are now determined by one unified system of proficiency, based on your character's level.

As you go on grand adventures with your character, you will gain experience and eventually level up. Pathfinder characters have exciting and important choices to make every time they gain a level, from selecting new class feats to adding new spells to their repertoires.
[h=2]Playing the Game[/h]We've made a number of changes to the way the game is played, to clean up the overall flow of play and to add some interesting choices in every part of the story. First up, we have broken play up into three distinct components. Encounter mode is what happens when you are in a fight, measuring time in seconds, each one of which can mean life or death. Exploration mode is measured in minutes and hours, representing travel and investigation, finding traps, decoding ancient runes, or even mingling at the queen's coronation ball. Of all the modes of play, exploration is the most flexible, allowing for easy storytelling and a quick moving narrative. Finally, the downtime mode happens when your characters are back in town, or relative safety, allowing them to retrain abilities, practice a trade, lead an organization, craft items, or recuperate from wounds. Downtime is measured in days, generally allowing time to flow by in an instant.

Most of the game happens in exploration or encounter mode, with the two types of play flowing easily from one to the other. In fact, exploration mode can have a big impact on how combat begins, determining what you roll for your initiative. In a group of four exploring a dungeon, two characters might have their weapons ready, keeping an eye out for danger. Another might be skulking ahead, keeping to the shadows, while the fourth is looking for magic. If combat begins, the first two begin with their weapons drawn, ready for a fight, and they roll Perception for their initiative. The skulking character rolls Stealth for initiative, giving them a chance to hide before the fight even begins. The final adventurer rolls Perception for initiative, but also gains some insight as to whether or not there is magic in the room.

After initiative is sorted out and it's your turn to act, you get to take three actions on your turn, in any combination. Gone are different types of actions, which can slow down play and add confusion at the table. Instead, most things, like moving, attacking, or drawing a weapon, take just one action, meaning that you can attack more than once in a single turn! Each attack after the first takes a penalty, but you still have a chance to score a hit. In Pathfinder Second Edition, most spells take two actions to cast, but there are some that take only one. Magic missile, for example, can be cast using from one to three actions, giving you an additional missile for each action you spend on casting it!
Between turns, each character also has one reaction they can take to interrupt other actions. The fighter, for example, has the ability to take an attack of opportunity if a foe tries to move past or its defenses are down. Many classes and monsters have different things they can do with their reactions, making each combat a little bit less predictable and a lot more exciting. Cast a fire spell near a red dragon, for example, and you might just find it takes control of your magic, roasting you and your friends instead of the intended target!
[h=2]Monsters and Treasure[/h]The changes to the game are happening on both sides of the GM screen. Monsters, traps, and magic items have all gotten significant revisions.

First off, monsters are a lot easier to design. We've moved away from strict monster construction formulas based off type and Hit Dice. Instead, we start by deciding on the creature's rough level and role in the game, then select statistics that make it a balanced and appropriate part of the game. Two 7th-level creatures might have different statistics, allowing them to play differently at the table, despite both being appropriate challenges for characters of that level.

This also makes it easier for us to present monsters, giving us more space to include special abilities and actions that really make a monster unique. Take the fearsome tyrannosaurus, for example; if this terrifying dinosaur gets you in its jaws, it can take an action to fling you up to 20 feet through the air, dealing tremendous damage to you in the process!

Hazards are now a more important part of the game, from rangers creating snares to traps that you have to actively fight against if you want to survive. Poisons, curses, and diseases are a far more serious problem to deal with, having varied effects that can cause serious penalties, or even death.

Of all of the systems that Game Masters interact with, magic items are one of the most important, so we spent extra time ensuring that they are interesting and fun. First and foremost, we have taken significant steps to allow characters to carry the items they want, instead of the items that they feel they must have to succeed. Good armor and a powerful weapon are still critical to the game, but you no longer have to carry a host of other smaller trinkets to boost up your saving throws or ability scores. Instead, you find and make the magic items that grant you cool new things to do during play, giving you the edge against all of the monsters intent on making you into their next meal.
We can't wait until you find your first +1 longsword to see what it can do!
[h=2]What's Next?[/h]There are a lot of things we are excited to show off, so many in fact that we have to pace ourselves. First off, if you want to hear the game in action right now, we've recorded a special podcast with the folks from the Glass Cannon Network, converting the original Pathfinder First Edition Module, Crypt of the Everflame, to the new edition. Head on over to their site and listen to the first part of this adventure now!
Stop by tomorrow for the first blog taking an in-depth look at Pathfinder Second Edition, starting off with the new system for taking actions, then visit us again on Friday for an exploration of the Glass Cannon game, exploring some of its spoilers in detail!
[h=2]We Need You![/h]All of us at Paizo want to take a moment to thank you, the fans, players, and game masters that have made this exciting journey a possibility. It's been a wild ride for the past decade, and speaking personally, I could not be more excited for where we are heading. But, as I am sure you've heard a number of times already, we cannot make this game without you, without your feedback and passion for the game. Thank you for coming with us on this adventure, thank you for contributing to our community, and thank you for playing Pathfinder.

Jason Bulmahn
Director of Game Design
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Features[/h]The new Pathfinder Playtest rules are the first step in the evolution to the new edition. We have incorporated the best innovations and lessons of the last 10 years to move the game forward in new and exciting ways. As we count down the days to the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook release, we'll be revealing more information on the following topics (and more!) on the Paizo blog:

  • 10th-Level Spells and 4 Spell Lists
  • Alchemists in Core
  • Archetypes and Multiclassing
  • Class Changes
  • Classic Monsters and Magic
  • Clean, Modular Information-Based Design
  • Combat Maneuvers that Rock
  • Designed for All Levels of Play
  • Easier to Play
  • Goblin Player Characters
  • Golarion-Infused
  • Heroic Storytelling
  • Innovative Initiative
  • More Customization
  • New Background System
  • Pathfinder Society
  • Production Values
  • Race Changes and Feats
  • Rebalanced Magic Items
  • Simplified Actions
  • Streamlined Proficiencies
  • Support
  • True to Pathfinder
  • Wayne Reynolds Art

[h=2]Compatibility?[/h]The big question -- backwards compatibility? Paizo says "While many of the rules of the game have changed, much of what made Pathfinder great has remained the same. The story of the game is unchanged, and in many cases, you can simply replace the old rules with their new counterpart without having to alter anything else about the adventure. As for individual rules, like your favorite spell or monster, most can be added with a simple conversion, changing a few numbers and rebalancing some of the mechanics."
[h=2]Pathfinder Playtest Products[/h]All Pathfinder Playtest products will be released as FREE downloads exclusively at paizo.com on August 2, 2018. On the same day, we'll release limited-edition print versions of the Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook, Pathfinder Playtest Adventure, and Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack for players and Game Masters seeking the ultimate playtest experience. These print editions will be available for preorder from local retailers now and paizo.com between March 20 and May 1. We'll also have copies at the Paizo booth during Gen Con 2018 in Indianapolis on August 2–5.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Rulebook[/h]This massive 400-page rulebook contains everything you need to create characters and run Pathfinder Playtest adventures from levels 1–20! With gorgeous new illustrations by Wayne Reynolds, the Playtest Rulebook lights the path leading directly to Pathfinder's future. Available in three editions: softcover, hardcover, and deluxe hardcover with foil-debossed faux-leather cover and ribbon bookmark.
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Adventure: Doomsday Dawn[/h]This 96-page super-adventure contains seven multi-encounter scenarios designed to introduce the new rules and put them to the ultimate test on your game table! With adventures spanning all 20 levels and featuring most of the game's newest rules, Doomsday Dawn provides a thrilling tour of the new rules, and of the Pathfinder world itself!
[h=4]Pathfinder Playtest Flip-Mat Multi-Pack[/h]Throw your heroes into the action with this collection of two double-sided Flip-Mats for use with the Playtest Adventure. These beautiful full-color maps measure 24" x 30" unfolded and set the scene for climactic battles that will determine the future of Pathfinder! The maps' erasable surface can handle and dry-erase, wet-erase, or even permanent markers.
[FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Save[/FONT]
 

log in or register to remove this ad

That was the best bit! Mostly due the huge over reaction to the book almost as if they did not understand what type of book they were getting.

Believe it or not, some people might buy a book full of fictional monsters for a fantasy role-playing game and not expect to see a pedophile fantasy codified in game rules.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

But that still doesn't address the main question. If Pathfinder is doing amazing, if the game is still growing, why do a second edition right now? Why risk losing the audience?
Why only a single year and not a two year playtest? Why not stretch it to eighteen months? Or a year with an accompanying six part AP to focus playtests for more consistent results?

Because it's been 10 effing years. There's a lot of diffusion and drift and the whole thing could use cleaning up. How long do you think you could sit on a host of exciting ideas for changing something that you'd really like to implement because you think they'd be improvements? Five years? Ten? Forever?

As far as why only a single year play test - they've already been working on the new edition for a while. They can't really work on it forever. Eventually it has to be released.
 


That was the best bit! Mostly due the huge over reaction to the book almost as if they did not understand what type of book they were getting.

There's still lines you can decide to cross or not cross. Game mechanics that encourage players to abuse children to become more charismatic are crossing a line I'd prefer they didn't. Combine that with one of the spells being Unnatural Lust which causes the target of the spell to be filled with the compulsion to rush to the subject of its lust and passionately kiss or caress that subject on its next turn, taking no other actions.

I mean, it's Pathfinder, not FATAL.
 

Believe it or not, some people might buy a book full of fictional monsters for a fantasy role-playing game and not expect to see a pedophile fantasy codified in game rules.

Yeah, well, believe it or not, a book of fiends synonymous with all sorts of damnation isn't your average bestiary.
 

You should read the faq and the developers answers both in this thread as in paizo’s forum to see that they are not trying to create something based on 5ed but a better version of the game they created a decade ago based on 3.5

Thanks, did Marketing tell you to pass on that message?

I'm not one to buy into hype. I didn't for 5E and 5E was what I expected. I'm not buying it for P2, and I suspect it will be what I expect it to be as well. The unfortunate downside to being a jaded and cynical Millennial is so often being proven right.
 

This is so disappointing. Pathfinder was like a brilliant shining gem of gaming greatness. Now to have it all cast to ruin is simply depressing.

There will not be compatibility between versions, so don't believe that part of the blurb. I fell for that with Starfinder which is not backwards compatible at all. I didn't care for the changes in Starfinder and was bored by play.

It really kind of makes me mad to look at that list of "pros" of the new system as I find myself saying "Pathfinder already does all of this!"

"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened."
 

Yes.
Because they chose particularly precise phrases to present the idea that their sales are great. Picking the one year where they had a new game launching and comparing that to the year before. Only mentioning that the company had a great year and not Pathfinder?
It's like saying “My finances are great. I have more money now than I did this time last week” and neglecting to mention it's payday.

That would be true if you only got paid once a year, or I guess in this case once every two years. Analogies are a very poor way describing an idea though.

I dont think that it would be a stretch to say that for all intents and purposes Paizo is Pathfinder so it does not really add anything to the discussion to quibble about the specifics of where the money is coming from. I mean Paizo also had to pay for all development costs for Starfinder in 2016 as well so being able to recoup those costs in 2017 is feature not a bug.

And since when has a “large editorial staff” been a descriptor of the strength of sales? (Large staff generally means smaller profits.)
And, again, it's not “largest staff ever” or even “largest editorial staff ever”. But the editorial staff now vs when Pathfinder 1 launched, which was still a shaky time for the company.

The quote is actually "larger editorial staff than at any time in the past" so yes that is largest staff ever. Maybe you misread the quote?

Roll20 tells us nothing except that more people are going onto Roll20.
Again, the number of people playing 3.5e and 4e and OD&D also increased over the last couple quarters. Would you say those games also have a growing audience? That their sales are strong?

You could say the same about ICv2, it tells you nothing except what retailers think is happening. It does not include online sales. It does not include third party products like Roll20. I mean the only thing better then the company telling you is being able to sit down with the actual figures and the CFO to go through them with you.

But that still doesn't address the main question. If Pathfinder is doing amazing, if the game is still growing, why do a second edition right now? Why risk losing the audience?
Why only a single year and not a two year playtest? Why not stretch it to eighteen months? Or a year with an accompanying six part AP to focus playtests for more consistent results?

I dont know why, Eric says that it is time to do it and he is the one that should know.

I do agree with you that a single year seems....unrealistically confident. I mean just look at what happened with the Shifter for example. I can understand the desire to get it done by GenCon and on the otherhand I would prefer to see it done right.
 

When I switched from 4e to Pathfinder it was because I was unhappy with 4e and honestly was torn between Pathfinder and one of the OSR clones. After a relatively short while, Pathfinder began to bog down for me toward the mid-tier play levels, so when the 5e playtest came out, I jumped on it and have been satisfied from the get go. I still don't believe we are even halfway through 5e life cycle, and I really have no incentive to switch to a new (?) system.
 

Because it's been 10 effing years. There's a lot of diffusion and drift and the whole thing could use cleaning up. How long do you think you could sit on a host of exciting ideas for changing something that you'd really like to implement because you think they'd be improvements? Five years? Ten? Forever?
The poster I was replying to was just discussing a then theoretical PF2, and he doubted it was coming because Pathfinder was still growing. And now, despite the announcement, he's still trying to claim Pathfinder was doing awesome the past couple years.

How long should they wait? No idea. Picking a set time is arbitrary. Effectively random.
You do it when the game starts lagging, when sales are dropping. If things are better than ever and the game is still growing, you don't launch a new edition then.
You always lose people in a conversion. An conversion rate of 100% is impossible. And if a large number of people are still playing and buying and being involved in the game, you're just encouraging them not to upgrade. Because they're currently happy.

It does sounds like Starfinder is doing well. Happy for Paizo for that. I had wondered if it was doing well beyond GenCon and in game stores. I do wish Paizo the best and almost hope this gets me back on Team Pathfinder.

As far as why only a single year play test - they've already been working on the new edition for a while. They can't really work on it forever. Eventually it has to be released.
False dilemma fallacy.
Yeah, they need a deadline, but the options aren't a) one year or b) forever.

One year isn't long, not when they need to start laying out the book and getting it sent to the prints in March. And they need time to playtest any fixes.

You can look at their past playtests for examples of when they stopped taking feedback. Often it was December. So, really, it's a 4 month playtest.
How many people will *actually* play more than a couple games during that period? To really test the gameplay at multiple levels and kick the tires enough to catch the abuses and problems? To accurately test out play at level 15 while the players have an accurate grasp of their character's abilities.
 

Remove ads

Remove ads

Top