Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[WhatGravitas]

They know they PR blundered it yesterday and they're working like gangbusters, today, to fix it.

Personally, I think taking Dragon and Dungeon out of print, which is what they seem to be doing, is idiocy, but I also think an e-zine can be a good thing (as my Pyramid membership would show).

Blunder? Hah. Disaster.

And I don't like the sound of their stuff. I have respect for the designers at WotC, but their comments read like: "Please, don't forget we're your buddies." A bit too heart-throbbing.

And then this business stuff "Can't tell yet!". So... why has Paizo done it so graciously, and why has WotC 24 hours of silence? I don't know. But I'd surely reacted differently. Perhaps worse, perhaps better.

But at least I would've known what they're doing. This way, I'm feeling... ignored and left out. Paizo never gave that feeling.

WotC should've announced their stuff today. Or beforehand, before the cancellation was made public, then people would've catched on, they'd seen the appeal of the new format. This way, they'll rather think of "OMG! You killed Dragon!". Then I've given them a chance, yeah.

I know that WotC could've pulled the license before. I know they're already "nice". But then, somebody has made the decision to pull the magazines, and done it in a strange way.

Still meh. Still sounds like marketing scam.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Still meh. Still sounds like marketing scam.

Scam is the wrong word. It's damage limitation.

 

[TheYeti1775]

"It wasn’t an easy decision. It wasn’t a one-sided decision. It wasn’t a decision that was made lightly, maliciously, capriciously, or on a whim. We worked out a transition period with Paizo and negotiated the end of this particular era."

I think you've jumped to a conclusion, and now that we are hearing more of WOTC's side of things, I think you've made some false assumptions about how things went down.

I think you missed what was stated earlier.

The Transition Period was an Extension asked for to complete a very well liked Adventure Path in Dungeon. WOTC agreed it was in their best interest for that.

Otherwise the one I got this past time would have been the last.

 

[Friadoc]

"It wasn’t an easy decision. It wasn’t a one-sided decision. It wasn’t a decision that was made lightly, maliciously, capriciously, or on a whim. We worked out a transition period with Paizo and negotiated the end of this particular era."

I think you've jumped to a conclusion, and now that we are hearing more of WOTC's side of things, I think you've made some false assumptions about how things went down.

Whether it was a hard choice, or not, it was still their choice. Not Paizo's choice, but WotC, 100%.

That said, WotC graciously has allowed Paizo to finish their current arcs, which is one of their better small-choices in this fat pocket of, in my opinion, bad choice.

I've jumped no conclusions, personally I think you're reading a bit more into the statement of "It wasn’t a one-sided decision." and thinking that WotC and Paizo decided to part ways.

From all that has been said, thus far, by BOTH companies, WotC decided to pull the lisence, Paizo of course acquiesced, since they couldn't fight the choice, if they wanted to or not, and worked out a deal to finish their current arcs in Dragon and Dungeon.

From the sound of it, from Paizo themselves, there are no hard feelings and WotC was good to them, both up to and including in the parting.

All that said, though, doesn't mean I, or anyone else who objects to this, cannot, should not blame WotC.

It was THEIR choice, as I said it's the perk/flaw of being in control; if you're the one with 100% control then all the praise and all the punishment is yours when you make a decision.

WotC made their choice, a lot of people disagree with it and are vocal about it.

WotC has said it is through no fault of Paizo, Paizo has stated how it was through WotC's change of direction (as, in fact, has WotC), and it seems that the two parties directly involved in all of this seem to agree on who was in control and whose choice it was to make the change.

So, if WotC knows that they're 100% to be blame, as well as 100% to be praised if this all works out, why can't be blame them?

It's a valid choice, it's the logical choice for those who disagree with the possible, probably directions.

You're making just as many assumptions as everyone else is, too. If I'm jumping to a conclusion based on what I've read, thus far, then you're guilty of that, too.

So, you jump your way, I'll jump mine, and in the end history will tell of our accuracy.

 

[BigFreekinGoblinoid]

Sad news. Kudo's to Eric Mona and his staff on the job he has done in recent years. I think they were just hitting their stride with the mags too...

I don't understand why it would require a "million" dollars or more to introduce a differently named magazine - isn't everything already in place from your efforts to
publish and distribute Dragon and Dungeon magazines? I could more readily understand non-compete contract language where WotC forbids Paizo from publishing a magazine for a certain time frame...

I'm hopeful for your ( Paizo's ) long term prospects, but past successes with Game Mastery line products etc... are NOT an indicator of future fortunes: In this case, primarily because the magazines were where buyers like me learned of the existence of these items ( not to mention other cool products from other publishers, games, toys etc... ! ). Secondarily, because my trips to the LGS have almost always been motivated by the desire to pick up the latest issue of Dungeon and/or Dragon - sometimes I leave with just a magazine: more often I buy a WotC book, an accessory, or some mini's. Joshua, where will Paizo be advertising? KotDT and?

One request for the remaining term of Dragon Magazine - if possible please try and publish a Demonomicon article each issue!

I WILL try out Pathfinder. I probably won't try the WotC online subscription. Paper is how I roll!

 

[TheYeti1775]

Blunder? Hah. Disaster.

And I don't like the sound of their stuff. I have respect for the designers at WotC, but their comments read like: "Please, don't forget we're your buddies." A bit too heart-throbbing.

And then this business stuff "Can't tell yet!". So... why has Paizo done it so graciously, and why has WotC 24 hours of silence? I don't know. But I'd surely reacted differently. Perhaps worse, perhaps better.

But at least I would've known what they're doing. This way, I'm feeling... ignored and left out. Paizo never gave that feeling.

WotC should've announced their stuff today. Or beforehand, before the cancellation was made public, then people would've catched on, they'd seen the appeal of the new format. This way, they'll rather think of "OMG! You killed Dragon!". Then I've given them a chance, yeah.

I know that WotC could've pulled the license before. I know they're already "nice". But then, somebody has made the decision to pull the magazines, and done it in a strange way.

Still meh. Still sounds like marketing scam.

I think you nailed it.
They act in complete CYA mode right now.

 

[sakkara]

I agree with many of the postings that this is a terrible (and one could sat despicable) decision on Wizards part.

I have no interest in an all-digital model of Dragon-y/Dungeon-y content on Wizards.com. Reading PDFs is much more difficult that reading something in print. I think WOTC is making a conscious effort to attract one audience (younger and/or computer-eqsue/MMoRPG players) at the expense of another (old-school and/or non-computer-eque players). And I think that it's just incredibly short-sighted.

I am a crusty old fart, who has been reading the Dragon since the mid-80's and have issues that date back to the the #50's. I had a nearly complete run of Dungeons from #1 to current. So I agree whoelheartedly with the perception that its kind of like the death of a friend -- at the very least, the end of an era.

Even though I am an old fart, I have fully embraced 3.x, and own most of what WOTC has published. This move makes me want to truly analyze thee new releases to make sure they justify my money. Additionally, I will be watching like a hawk for 4E -- which I have NO intention of supporting. I hav shelves and shelves of material from WOTC, Paizo, Necromancer Games, Malhavoc Press, Green Ronin, and many many others to use that will last me for years to come. Hell, Ptolus alone will keep me occupied for a long time.

I did transfer my subscriptions to Pathfinder -- I will give that a chance. But I am very put off by the price point. It will have to be a very quality product to command that much for me to continue buying it. The fact that it's a "product" and not a magazine like Dungeon/Dragon is a drawback for me, not a plus.

We will see what the future brings. I am sure I will at least review the WOTC offering (if they ever get around to releasing it!!), but this sure leaves a VERY bad taste in my mouth as a long-standing customer.

Sakkara

 

[Friadoc]

And then this business stuff "Can't tell yet!". So... why has Paizo done it so graciously, and why has WotC 24 hours of silence? I don't know. But I'd surely reacted differently. Perhaps worse, perhaps better.

As Eric Noah pointed out earlier, WotC use to have a lot more of an on-line presence, outside of their own site, but that seems to have been lacking, as of late.

Personally, I think if WotC people were allowed to comment before today, on their own and not just on the WotC site, I think they would have done so already.

It's all just speculation and conjecture, but what good deduction isn't, but I think WotC, or more likely a passdown rule from Hasbro, is that PR type comments can only come via official sources and thusly why there has been such a silence where before there was chatter.

Inside scoops are rarer out of WotC these days, usually more accident then idle conversation, and I think the PR of this would not have been has bad had WotC actually primed the pump, so to speak, and let people know.

Heck, just let a few of the hired guns out to talk on EN World, or what not, would have helped.

Although everyone has press releases and those who distrubute them, even the hush-hush world of politicals lets the info 'speculate' out before the real announcement is made the next day.

 

[rkwoodard]

New Customer

Kinda funny.
I have not bought a new Dungeon or Dragon in years. And at first I was reading this (and other threads) out of nostalgia. And the whole Pathfinder thing sounded interesting but not my cup of tea.

Then

The class, the enthusism, and the grit that Joshua Frost, Erik Mona, and James Jacob showed in their response here and own their own site. Plus the sheer brillance of hitting us with the whole Pathfinder thing right away, impressed me.

Know, I will be buying Crown of the Kobold King, and based on it, I may get a subscription to the Pathfinder, or at least pick up their monthly modules.

Good luck guys and thank you.
RK Woodard

 

[EricNoah]

Plus the sheer brillance of hitting us with the whole Pathfinder thing right away, impressed me.

And just the whole thing of how their website knows how much they owe me, and how I was able to make a choice of what to do with my refund, and how I can go back to that page and change my mind as often as I want ... their website isn't always speedy, but that kinda blew me away. I guess maybe I'm easily impressed...