Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[Agamon]

What??? But...these magazines (well, Dragon, anyway) have always been around. Always. Now WotC just decides it's time to just up and kill it? I thought WotC making adventures was a good thing, now I know it's not. In fact, I've bought my last WotC book. Screw 'em.

 

[MerricB]

If (and this is a BIG if) WotC's concept for online Dungeon and Dragon content is as follows, then I'd consider it:

1. Fully-tagged PDFs and fully-linked HTML files that can be downloaded to my hard drive for local storage - I'm not gonna pay you to provide content that can be withdrawn or withheld at your whim, let alone the whim of the power or telecomm grids' stability.

Hmm. No comment

2. Maps that are able to be printed out in 1" = 5' scale. This is the one problem with the "new" encounter format and is already evident. The battlemaps in the adventures are worthless and they won't post scaled maps online.

I'd be happier if they did maps you could make with the dungeon tiles.

3. No mandatory advertisements. Your publishing costs just got cut (at least by half) since you have no printing costs - no paper, no inks, etc. I'm not paying to see online advertisements (and I use adblockers anyway).

Sounds reasonable.

4. New content every month. I'm not gonna pay for sporadic updates to a website.

In truth, their support for Magic got much better after the Duelist went away. Four articles by both Mark Rosewater and Aaron Forsythe (or whoever is head developer) a month is much better than what was before.

The Magic website gets a lot of content on a daily basis. It's really good. I hope that D&D gets similar support.

5. No java-based, web-only tools. I'm not storing a character on your server. I'm not using your dice-roller. I'm not using any of your content "online" at my gaming table.

Hmm. If you can download it and use it offline, I'm fine with java-based webtools, like their warband generator for DDM. (Seriously, to get cross-platform compatability, you need java-based programs).

Somehow, I don't think that any of the above are going to be part of WotC's intent.

Wouldn't be so sure.

My plans:

1. I'll still buy WotC print products (if they don't suck).

Pretty much how we've been doing. Some Wizards products suck, some don't. (Same as Paizo, really).

2. I've no intention of paying for an online tool or content unless it is DRM/restriction-free and I can save it to my hard drive, print out relevant parts, etc.

Sounds good. I note that the 3e pdfs they're selling through drivethrurpg are now watermarked and restriction-free.

3. For my Forgotten Realms fix, I'll go to Candlekeep.

Fair enough.

4. Hopefully, WotC will just bleed and bleed until they have to sell the D&D brand or risk it becoming worth less than what they paid for it.

There are so many places they could sell it to that would be worse.

I certainly don't want to see paizo die, but I'm not sure that they won't also get caught in the backlash of hate. How many of the contributors to Dungeon and Dragon will refuse to supply content to WotC?

Only the incredibly stupid ones.

 

[Hussar]

Like a lot of others here, I started reading Dragon about 25 years ago. Some of my best stuff came from the pages of Dragon. I still fondly remember the covers, even though I may not actually own the issues anymore (moved FAR too many times). The chessboard cover with the black queen incinerating the king and the ghost face in the background just stays with me.

This really is sad news.

 

[Thurbane]

Two icons of the game to disappear.

Two words: thanks Wizards

 

[rowport]

Hey, Paizo folks. As always, it is great to see guys like Erik and James in here personally, talking to the fans directly. That kind of class act is what brought huge credibility to Paizo, and increased readership to Dungeon and Dragon. Ironically, I agree with several others that in doing so, perhaps 'the student surpassed the master' and became a threat.

In any event, what is done is done. I am very bummed about it, honestly. Reading an early 3E Dragon brought me back into the RPG hobby after a decade away. But, it is the quality of the editorial staff, writers and production values that make those mags what they are, and those are in all Paizo products. So, I will stay around.

(FWIW, this is not about WOTC to me; I understand that they are making a business decision, presumable profit-driven. I disagree with it, especially without a ready product to replace it, but I already went through that frustration with eTools, so there you go.)

I do have a couple of questions about Paizo's new direction, which I think are not covered yet in this huge thread (!):

* Will Pathfinder be full color? If so, will it be on the same paper stock as the magazines have? I loved Dragon Compendium for content, but did not like the 'flimsy' pages.

* Is subscribing to the GameMastery monthly modules an option? If so, can remaining subscription credits be applied as in the Pathfinder option? While Pathfinder sounds interesting, I think that GameMastery modules will be more immediately useful to me. And, I am Mike McArtor's b****. How will I live without my monthly Class Acts, man??

* I get that Paizo cannot use WOTC IP anymore, which bums me immensely, as I am all about the funky class combos (e.g. Half-Illithid Scout/Warmage) which are just not possible with SRD materials. Will Paizo be creating its own IP to fill in classes/races/etc.? Or, will you use any 3rd party material? I would just get bored with the plain vanilla SRD stuff very quickly.

However it plays out, I will stay around as a customer. I like your products, and love your fan support. Thanks, Erik, especially.

 

[Banshee16]

WOW....that's quite the announcement...I've been collecting Dragon since, like, '91 or something. I can't believe they're doing this.

Any bets that WotC is going to be pulling out the rug on D20/OGL with the next edition? Sure seems like they're trimming a lot of stuff in the last few years.

Banshee

 

[Jdvn1]

I just want to say thank you to all the people that, over the years, has made Dungeon and Dragon magazines what it is.

 

[Vrecknidj]

Well, now I know what the big secret was that Mona mentioned a while back.

I find it odd and kinda surreal that GenCon40 will be right before these magazines bite the dust.

Honestly though, things change, so it's not that big a deal to me. Pathfinder will be cool or it won't. The publishers of Dragon and Dungeon content will go elsewhere or they won't. But DMs and players will find ways to keep the game going independently of what WotC does and what Paizo does, so I'm not that worried about it.

I wonder if my pristine copy of Dungeon #1 will be worth anything now?

Dave

 

[Banshee16]

I imagine it is because folks who really use the WotC boards are intimately familiar with the history of rotten execution on WotC's online site. A magazine is always delivered monthly, barring rare postal errors for a few, and when you have it in hand it doesn't just disappear. But WotC's website goes down frequently taking it away from everyone for that duration.

Plus WotC has a history of starting an online feature only to discontinue it with little explanation. WotC site users are familiar with this more than most.

And a bunch of printed papers is nowhere near as nice as a nicely bound magazine..

Banshee

 

[drothgery]

5. No java-based, web-only tools. I'm not storing a character on your server. I'm not using your dice-roller. I'm not using any of your content "online" at my gaming table.

Hmm. If you can download it and use it offline, I'm fine with java-based webtools, like their warband generator for DDM. (Seriously, to get cross-platform compatability, you need java-based programs).

Generally speaking, Flash works for that too.