Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon

[RFisher]

Here's the funny part that I forgot in my previous post...

For some reason, I think last night--knowing this news--may have been the first time that I ever had the slightest wish that I was a drinker. I almost wanted to get smashed like some of us did.

 

[rom90125]

A good friend wrote this 'editorial' for my site, and I thought it should be posted here as well.

Paizo and Me

Two days ago I was happily working on my Tome of Battle campaign setting,
figuring out how to transition from pen and paper to play by post over the
summer. I had the next adventure ready, I was getting responses from
posters, and all seemed well.

Yesterday, I learned that Dragon and Dungeon magazines are dead. Wizards of
the Coast pulled the license that Paizo had been using to publish both
magazines.

Paizo reacted by retooling their website, launching a brand new game product
to fill the lost Adventure Path series, and offering many options to
subscribers on how to spend their lost subscription dollars (or to just get
a check back).

Wizards put a news release blurb on their News section. Written by a suit.

Now I work for a corporation in my day life. I know how important customers
are. I can't pay my mortgage unless my customers are happy and I honestly
want them to be happy with the work I do.

So I contrast the responses of Paizo to Wizards. I think about how many
times I've seen the editors post on the Paizo website and I remember talking
to several of them at Gen Con. And how rarely I've had contact with R&D at
Wizards.

As a roleplaying customer, I came to the realization that I am not Wizard's
target market. I DM but only buy miniatures every once in a while.

Wizards makes money on miniatures. So much so that in my opinion the
creation of the miniatures D&D game drove the change to D&D 3.5. Modules put
out by Wizards now only use monsters that are also minis.

I am officially now a dinosaur. I am no longer the market segment Wizards
wants. At first, that hurt. Now it just pisses me off.

However, I don't want to rant here too much or complain. A realization
dawned on me as I struggled with the loss of Dragon and Dungeon.

I am Paizo's target market. They don't just want me to buy their products;
they would love for me to help write their products (if I'm good enough!).
They like poster maps as well as battle maps and they use whatever monsters
drive an adventure, or make them up as needed, not just those that match a
minis line.

My eyes opened further when I realized I've been a Wizard's fanboy for so
long because of Paizo. I stuck with D&D and switched to 3.5 because I was
sending queries to Dragon. Even recently, when I've stopped pursuing
freelance opportunities, I keep buying Wizards stuff because it was in
Dragon and Dungeon.

Now, the strange part. Paizo will now be endorsing third party OGL products
because they can no longer use Wizards closed content. Do I remain a
Wizard's fanboy now?

Oddly enough, no. I actually enjoy the community part, the friendship part
of D&D so much that I have discovered I'm actually a Paizo fanboy. I'm a
proud charter member subscribing to the new Pathfinder product. And I might
just try my hand at freelancing again.

Paizo writes games to make money, I understand that. So does Wizards. The
difference is that the R&D guys at Wizards aren't the same people making the
business decisions. The suits don't post on Wizards' website.

At Paizo, the managers and the gamers and the designers are all mixed
together. And they all post online from the editors to the art director to
the CEO.

And I appreciate that. I applaud Paizo's dedication to their customers. And
I applaud each employee for remaining a fellow gamer. Bravo.

I'm proud to be Paizo's target market segment. Or perhaps more accurately,
one of Paizo's fellow gamers.

I excited and ready to tread the path Paizo is laying out with Pathfinder.
And maybe, if I work really hard, I'll get to help blaze some new trails
along the way.

Charlie, Pathfinder Charter Subscriber

 

[Mistwell]

Why is everyone assuming that WOTC just pulled the license, and that Paizo played no role in those negotiations?

One likely series of events was this:

WOTC: Well your license renewal is coming up, so lets talk about it. Your sales are way up, and we think we deserve a portion of that increase. So we want to add +X% to the license fee.

Paizo: No. We did the work, and we want the same percentage of profits as before.

WOTC: But part of your popularity is because you have the official seal of approval on your products, and can cover new products coming out from WOTC. WOTC's products are selling like gangbusters right now, and part of that popularity is spilling over to your magazines which share in the interest for those new products. We should therefore share in the increased profits from that increased popularity.

Paizo: We disagree. We think our product popularity is not really related to yours.

WOTC: Well then I guess we will need to part ways on this issue then.

Paizo: I guess so. So, how should we do this....

I mean, that seems like a more likely senario than WOTC just randomly calling up one day and saying "You're cut off".

Why is there a continuing assumption in this thread that it was the greed of WOTC only, and not the greed of both parties, that is at fault here. Or, that greed even played the major role in this decision?

And then there is all this hatred of "suits" and the "suits" at WOTC are at fault. As if there are no "suits" at Paizo, or as if we know it was corporateness that was solely behind these decisions (despite both parties seeming to imply it was amicable).

It sure sounds like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions and taking sides without all the facts.

 

[dcas]

If that were the case, then why isn't WOTC looking for someone else to take over the license on their (new) terms?

 

[Mistwell]

If that were the case, then why isn't WOTC looking for someone else to take over the license on their (new) terms?

Why should they? If you are no longer coming to terms with your current publisher, isn't that the natural time to reassess the product itself and see if you want to change the way it's being done?

 

[The_Gneech]

Why is everyone assuming that WOTC just pulled the license, and that Paizo played no role in those negotiations?

WotC "just pulled" the license from CMP, for starters. And has a history of giving the metaphorical bird to partners and publishers generally.

That, and while it certainly looks like Paizo is doing fine at the moment, the end of the magazines is very likely to mean the end of their presence at magazine stands, many bookstores, etc. -- they're going to take a pretty big hit. The fact that they've obviously known this was coming for a bit and are ready to hit the ground running doesn't imply that they were complicit in it or even thought it was anything less than a bonehead idea. We don't know (and probably won't for years if ever) what they think about it because it would be impolitic at best (and disastrous at worst) to come out and say so.

Who knows? Maybe Erik Mona woke up one day and said, "Y'know, I'm sick of doing these magazines that are selling well and form a pillar of the community. How about we axe 'em and start doing all our own uncharted and unproven projects, just for the heck of it! I'm tired of Greyhawk anyway." But somehow I don't think so.

-The Gneech

 

[Mistwell]

WotC "just pulled" the license from CMP, for starters. And has a history of giving the metaphorical bird to partners and publishers generally.

Do you have proof to back up that allegation?

That, and while it certainly looks like Paizo is doing fine at the moment, the end of the magazines is very likely to mean the end of their presence at magazine stands, many bookstores, etc. -- they're going to take a pretty big hit.

They are saying differently. Are you saying they are lying?

The fact that they've obviously known this was coming for a bit and are ready to hit the ground running doesn't imply that they were complicit in it or even thought it was anything less than a bonehead idea.

I agree, but it also doesn't imply they DID think it was a bonehead idea or were NOT complicit in it. Most of the time, there is a negotiation, and both sides participate. That should be the default assumption until we have some sort of proof otherwise.

We don't know (and probably won't for years if ever) what they think about it because it would be impolitic at best (and disastrous at worst) to come out and say so.

I agree, so why assume you do know how they "really" feel, rather than assume what they say is what they mean?

Who knows? Maybe Erik Mona woke up one day and said, "Y'know, I'm sick of doing these magazines that are selling well and form a pillar of the community. How about we axe 'em and start doing all our own uncharted and unproven projects, just for the heck of it! I'm tired of Greyhawk anyway." But somehow I don't think so.

-The Gneech

That was not my assumption, but it makes a fine strawman. My assumption was that WOTC asked for more in the license renewal negotiations, and Paizo ran the numbers and decided they didn't want to do that. That is a different kind of situation than the one you just described.

 

[Reynard]

Why is everyone assuming that WOTC just pulled the license, and that Paizo played no role in those negotiations?...
<snip>
...It sure sounds like a lot of people are jumping to conclusions and taking sides without all the facts.

Right or wrong, I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that WotC has been essentially silent on the issue. there was a time when someone tied to WotC would have been here in a flash, positing in the same thread as the Paizo guys, helping En Worlders understand the decisions. Those days are gone. i don't think WotC thinks EN World is valuable any longer, or deserves the same level of respect it used to get as a thanks for being THE bridge to 3E. A lot of good will was built up on this site in the pre-3E days, and now it seems like it is gone for good.

If the tinfoilhats are right and this is the beginning of the ramp up to 4E as a closed, largely web-based product (and I am not saying they are, just saying), EN World should become the wielder of all things 3.5 -- collecting OGC and compiling it and becoming the storehouse for D&D as it was at the dawn of the new century.

 

[IanB]

If the tinfoilhats are right and this is the beginning of the ramp up to 4E as a closed, largely web-based product (and I am not saying they are, just saying), EN World should become the wielder of all things 3.5 -- collecting OGC and compiling it and becoming the storehouse for D&D as it was at the dawn of the new century.

Personally I can't think of anything that would kill my interest in EN World faster than it not being the place to talk about the current version of D&D, whatever that version might be.

 

[Wraith Form]

I'm not one to generally wish ill upon others ( ) but I really hope Wizards digital iniative falls flat on its face.

Exactly.