-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Pathfinder 1E Paizo no longer publishing Dungeon and Dragon
- Thread starter Exquisite Dead Guy
- Start date
Friadoc
Explorer
Nightfall said:Friadoc,
Exactly. I figure if I can't find you, it's only cause I'm not trying.I will keep you in mind Robert.
*grins*
Thanks, a lot
Now, on that note, I need to continue working out the rough draft of an adventure.
I've been playing hookie the past day or so.
Steel_Wind
Legend
Couple of things I was considering this eve that have not been the subject of comment here...
1 - The GAMA tradeshow is next week. To the consumer - this may not mean much. To the distributor and the gaming industry - it's a big deal. Paizo had to be there selling Pathfinder to distributors. If they weren't - it would have seriously undermined the abiility to make this thing fly and get it distribution. This announcement had to be made this week, even if it wasn't in WotC's interest.
2- Wouldn't the easiest thing in the world have been for WotC to announce that Dragon and Dungeon were not dying but they were moving online? Never mind the talk of "that type of content" moving online - but wouldn't the announcement of the movement of the magazines online been a helluva lot easier?
Wouldn't that spin have been easy to do and say and have avoided much spleen venting? It would have reduced the talk to one of periodical delivery (paper vs computer) - and not this death of the family dog, kick in the gut et al. stuff.
Well now, yes it would have. And I put it to you that anything that easily avoided by a press release and some good old fashioned spin doctoring had to have a reason behind it.
That reason was money. Namely, mine and your subscription money.
If you subscribed to Dungeon or Dragon - and those periodicals were moving online, there would have been a fair bit of fuss about people demanding a transfer of their subscription from Paizo to WotC.
Never mind whether that was required under the license or your subscription contract or not.
The headaches would have been enormous if it was attempted.
I have no idea if Paizo was obligated to do it under their license. Or that they would have done it if they had been obligated to do it. (The lawyer in me always starts getting very cynical when you reach the "and here-is-where-they-are-obligated-to-transfer-the-money" part of the contract).
As it stands - this method has allowed Paizo to persuade a fair number of people to transfer their subscription to Pathfinder and keep their company afloat with a real chance of survival.
Not sure if this is WotC taking this PR hit for Paizo - but it's certainly more than possible.
When you consider that Paizo was left to talk and hype and sell on the first day of announcement and WotC kept absolutely mum about new products online to a bare minimum - I got to think that was leaving the spotlight open for Paizo to sell its new book.
Perhaps they aren't quite as villainous in Renton after all.
Something to ponder, at any rate.
1 - The GAMA tradeshow is next week. To the consumer - this may not mean much. To the distributor and the gaming industry - it's a big deal. Paizo had to be there selling Pathfinder to distributors. If they weren't - it would have seriously undermined the abiility to make this thing fly and get it distribution. This announcement had to be made this week, even if it wasn't in WotC's interest.
2- Wouldn't the easiest thing in the world have been for WotC to announce that Dragon and Dungeon were not dying but they were moving online? Never mind the talk of "that type of content" moving online - but wouldn't the announcement of the movement of the magazines online been a helluva lot easier?
Wouldn't that spin have been easy to do and say and have avoided much spleen venting? It would have reduced the talk to one of periodical delivery (paper vs computer) - and not this death of the family dog, kick in the gut et al. stuff.
Well now, yes it would have. And I put it to you that anything that easily avoided by a press release and some good old fashioned spin doctoring had to have a reason behind it.
That reason was money. Namely, mine and your subscription money.
If you subscribed to Dungeon or Dragon - and those periodicals were moving online, there would have been a fair bit of fuss about people demanding a transfer of their subscription from Paizo to WotC.
Never mind whether that was required under the license or your subscription contract or not.
The headaches would have been enormous if it was attempted.
I have no idea if Paizo was obligated to do it under their license. Or that they would have done it if they had been obligated to do it. (The lawyer in me always starts getting very cynical when you reach the "and here-is-where-they-are-obligated-to-transfer-the-money" part of the contract).
As it stands - this method has allowed Paizo to persuade a fair number of people to transfer their subscription to Pathfinder and keep their company afloat with a real chance of survival.
Not sure if this is WotC taking this PR hit for Paizo - but it's certainly more than possible.
When you consider that Paizo was left to talk and hype and sell on the first day of announcement and WotC kept absolutely mum about new products online to a bare minimum - I got to think that was leaving the spotlight open for Paizo to sell its new book.
Perhaps they aren't quite as villainous in Renton after all.
Something to ponder, at any rate.
Last edited:
Just thought I'd point out that trains haven't been killed. It's still quite possible to take train trips to your destination instead of a car, bus, or plane- I've done so within the past year. In fact, here in TX, we're talking about high-speed rail to reduce congestion and pollution in the triangle of San Antonio, Houston, and Dallas/FW (with stops in Waco and Austin along the way).
IOW, the option of a train ride is still available.
In the Dragon/Dungeon debate, the decisionmakers at WotC (and/or possibly Hasbro) decided to remove the option of a dual-format magazine- an option I've mentioned has been quite viable for a number of publications.
Steel_Wind
Legend
Agamon said:
Actually, I think WotC is well able to create a superior product in that category if they wish to.
More to the point, WotC is able to sell a "whole package" approach which includes WotC art that nobody else, save Atari, is able to do.
Agamon
Adventurer
Erik Mona said:
I understand that you may not want to or can't answer this question, Erik, so I guess it's rhetorical, but when you told WotC of your expectations, was it just handwaved (I'm assuming here that it was brought up)? WotC strangely didn't seem to treat it as a very big deal until long after the angry hordes were banging on the gate.
Which means, a) they honestly did think it was a big deal, or b) they really didn't care what we, the consumers, think. I think I know where I'm leaning towards as a guess, and I can't help but agree with Ryan Dancey's assertion that TSR's downfall was directly affected by their not wanting to listen to their customers. I, for one, think one of the main reasons of Paizo's success comes from the awesome customer service and development of product with an eye towards customer feedback. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, you guys rock.
Agamon
Adventurer
Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
I'm speculating here, but I think it's a good bet the subscription to WotC's DI will be lower than the total Dragon/Dungeon subscriptions, and I'll even go as far to guess that it'll be by a wide margin. As small of a percentage of the gaming populous that read the mags is, this online thing is going to pretty radical for a massive percentage of gamers. If I'm correct, then they are dismissing the majority.
And people come into these threads and say we're foolish for reacting to this the way we are, that's not cool. It's not a big deal to you, fine, I respect that. Some people are newer gamers and don't understand the history, some gamers never read the mag, and some just don't think it's a big deal, that's great. So respect the fact that is a big deal to a lot of us. If it wasn't a big deal to you, then the decision probably had little to no impact on you. It did impact a number of us, and we're not happy. Continuing a print mag alongside the DI wouldn't have raised the ire of very many people, I don't think, so yeah, this was WotC disrespecting a good portion of their customner base, in my mind.
Similar Threads
