Paladin and Detect Evil

[JacktheRabbit]

I allow Detect Evil but in my next campaign I will make it much more difficult to use.

It can detect evil by seeing into the soul of someone but it requires close range and long concentration.

What I am going to aim the ability at instead is sensing evil outsiders or places of evil. It will also sense evil past. If a horrible murder is commited in a spot there will be a stain of evil on the room.


This should limit its use as the generic Paladin "ding your evil I can kill you now".

 

[Trainz]

Are you ok? I hope that didn't hurt!

That's certainly a good idea, if you want to tone the ability down, basically how we are were doing it in one campaign also, that you can only detect moderately powerful or supernatural evil, not everything with an E in its alignment. Worked fairly well.

Bye
Thanee

Yup.

I don't know if you noticed, but in the Monster Manual, evil creatures are listed in two ways:

- Always evil or;
- Usually evil.

You could certainly play on that. Humans are certainly not Always evil, not even Usually evil (one would hope).

Also, read the part in the Book of Exalted Deeds that discusses just that. The POV of that book is that, actually, a Paladin should first and foremost show MERCY towards evil creatures. Attacking a band of usually evil orcs is one thing, attacking an evil merchant is quite another. Evil does not equal murderous, just very selfish. A 0 level evil merchant surely does not plan to pick up a sword to slay all his concurrents (one might, but not all).

The Paladin could very easilly detect the merchant as evil, and if he feels obligated to erradicate that evil, then he must make use of the Diplomacy skill (as per the Book of Exalted Deeds) and turn him from his evil ways. Outright slaying of the merchant would, quite simply, mean the end of his Paladin days. Murder is evil, no matter if the one you murder is evil or good.

Did any of this made any sense ? ? ?

 

[Storminator]

In my PBeM the paladin just detected evil (very appropriately, given the situation they're in), and one of the men they're facing will show up evil. He's a medium level fighter, which, when you do the divide by five thing in the spell description, gives a reading of "the petty evil of bad men."


Considering that the party has recently faced some fiends and evil clerics (and a shrine that blanket the entire keep in overwhelming evil), I'm reasonably certain that's not going to trigger an instant Smite.

PS

 

[Felix]

Evil is not something that automatically mandates death... nor is it always a give away of a big bad guy.

Exactly right. If a Paladin goes around Detecting then he's sure to be upset about what he finds... there will be as many evil humans around as good humans as neutral humans. So it cannot be the case that Paladins are allowed to go smiting evil only on the justification that they Detected evil.

Personally I think the best way to remove a Paladin's reliance on the ability is to throw in a whole lot of "noise". When he Detects Evil in the King's hall to find the guilty party, expecting to see only one evil person, instead have quite a few advisors appear as evil. Not that they don't give good advice on their fields, but they are not motivated by any kind of altruism. That, and try to disassociate [Good] people with good results. An [Evil] king might have the best rules in place to allow his citizens to grow wealthy and happy under him...

As far as Evil-dar goes, remind players that if they want to use Evil-dar, NPC clerics will soon find the virtue of Good-dar. Dungeons will become alerted to a Paladin's presence as soon as he steps foot in the entrance... I think that will dissuade them from trying to use Evil-dar.

 

[DreamChaser]

I have always made the paladin's ability both constant and involuntary. The paladin cannot choose to detect or not detect and can be overwhelmed by nearby evil in extreme cases. If the paladin concentrates, he can attempt to get more specific in terms of numbers and such but normally, it is just the presence that is detected. The up side is that it is 60 feet (or so...I sometimes make it further to use it as a goad for the characters) in all directions (within the normal limits, more or less).

DC

 

[Inconsequenti-AL]

The 'detect good' idea seems pretty workable... I do think it weakens the paladin somewhat - Think you're right that some compensation would be in order.

One possible downside I can see is that it would let badguys use those fake aura spells to appear good. I think that is altogether different from the 'not evil' you'd normally get from them, which could cause some problems?




The variation we used is that it works exactly like a spell. Praying loudly to 'Mark The Wretched Sinners in my sight, Oh All Powerful One...' - etc. Followed by 20 seconds of concented meditiation. i.e. Doing this in front of a nobleman (especially an evil one!) will get you flogged or challenged to a duel depending on your social rank... try it on the king and it's going to get messy!