D&D 5E Paladin Code (3.X) vs Paladin Oaths (5e)

[Charlaquin]

As a casual D&D player, I'd like to ask: what consequences do Clerics face for violating the tenets of their god? Under what circumstances would they lose their powers/spells?

By the rules as written, none. I suppose a DM could add restrictions as a house rule if they wanted, but by default a cleric has no restrictions on their behavior at all.

 

[corwyn77]

By the rules as written, none. I suppose a DM could add restrictions as a house rule if they wanted, but by default a cleric has no restrictions on their behavior at all.

Then why should we expect them on Paladins?

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

In my mind the Oath should be strict but comply with the ethos of thier god. You are playing a character in a world where thier is no doubt the god is alive and that he has given you the word. I always judge the paladin by the god or goddess they worship. a god who espoused mercy or forgiveness will probably be more forgiving than a god who is all about harshly hunting down and destroying evil. Minor failings might be dealt with by local church leaders and ignored by the diety. Antipaladins are fun, most evil dieties are unforgiving and might even punish them for simply failing even though they did everything by their code. And leaving them is almost never a survivable option.

What about for Paladins that don't get their powers from or worship a god?

 

[Charlaquin]

Then why should we expect them on Paladins?

I don’t think we should.

 

[jgsugden]

Whether we all leaned one way, the other way, or covered the spectrum - our opinions are irrelevant. The impacts of not following a Paladin's Oath is up to the DM. All we can tell you is how we see it.

In my game, the Oaths are like Oaths in the real world. Their value is determined by the one swearing it, and the ones holding you accountable for it. The ramifications for breaking it (from the one to which you swore) are situation specific.

They're also role playing gold. Great stories usually require great conflict, and the conflict between duty and something else (honor, love, sandwich, glory, etc...) can offer real personal drama. My favorite classes in D&D, when I DM, are Warlock, Paladin and Cleric because they inherently have a relationship at the core of their character that is built upon either duty, loyalty or obligation. I like to lull the PCs into a false sense of security that the relationship is not what their character is about, and then I place obstacles in their way that make them reconsider that position.

If you swear an Oath to Bane or Asmodeus, and then break it ... well, you're not going to have a good day. You'll likely know in advance what price you will pay for breaking that vow, and it will likely be horrific. It has been about 20 years, but the culmination of a three year campaign was salvaged from horrific die rolls by a clever PC tricking the big bad into breaking their Oath to Asmodeus and being swallowed down to hell just before they plunged the world into darkness.

If you swear an Oath to Pholtus, Bahamut or Moradin, and then break it ... you may find yourself on trial. There will be an effort to make the punishment fit the crime.

If you swear an Oath to Kord or Thrithereon and break it, you might find the focus being on whether you're living up to the spirit of your Oath, not the trappings of it. If you disappoint, they may give you a chance to redeem yourself, may just chastise you, or may start to consider whether you are worthy of the gifts they've given.

If you swear an Oath to Gruumsh, you might find he doesn't give a %$!# about pretty words - he cares about you doing exactly what he wants, when he wants it. Fail to predict the unwritten demands he has for you, and you may find that former allies in his service turn on you.

If you swear an Oath to Oberron and Titania, they're likely going to be the ones that tricked you into breaking your Oath. And your punishment might be anything on the spectrum from severe to humorous. Whatever suits their whim.

However, I will almost always position someone that was taken an Oath or signed a contract (Warlocks) in a position where they have to decide what the Oath means to them. The character's views are as important, if not more, that the views of the one to which they have sworn.

My clerics also all have an obligation. For some it is based upon written rules, for others it is just a duty of loyalty to the cause - but failing to follow the teachings of your God will have repercussions.

 

[DammitVictor]

As a quick example without thinking of ramifications, perhaps a paladin of freedom would have an oath against using mind controlling magics in their combats, which would work mechanically by a huge aura suppressing them from working on their enemies.

Give them a large radius aura of freedom that suppresses all [charm] and [compulsion] effects either targeting or originating from within it. It is not selective, and it cannot be dismissed by the Paladin or dispelled without the Paladin's resistance. (Perhaps it has named exemptions, like for zone of truth and the like.)

 

[EzekielRaiden]

My group is pretty late to the party, but we just finished a long-running Pathfinder game and are (finally) taking a look at 5e.

As I contemplate a paladin PC, I'm curious about how to read the paladin oaths. Are they literally the 3.X code of conduct with a different name, or are they less strict? My group has always run the code as a major part of playing a paladin, and the risk of falling has been very real in previous campagins. It's kept me off playing one for the longest time, so I'm wondering if it's still as fraught in this edition.

(Comic for illustrative purposes.)

If you have a rigidly by-the-book DM, I suspect the Oaths are less strict than the old Code, despite the former being more codified than the latter. If you have a very relaxed DM, I'm not sure it makes much difference, though the higher specificity might mean they'd find more situations where issues could arise.

It sounds like your group is more the type that was very strict, so the Oaths will probably end up less strict? Honestly, I'd suggest being open with your group and talking about how you want to play a Paladin, but you're afraid of being punished for what you want to do. Sharing your earnest interest

 

[Fauchard1520]

As I am sitting here pondering the oaths for 5e paladins I was struck by the thought that it might have been cool to assign actual rules restrictions to the oaths rather than leaving then open for interpretation.

One interesting version of "codified RP restriction" lives over in the 3rd party Draconic Exemplar from Rite Publishing:

Draconic Exemplar – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com

Think something like that could work for paladin oaths?

 

[Weiley31]

Personally, I still don't see anything wrong with applying Paladin/Cleric/Warlock power loss ala 3.0./3.5.

Just don't make it extreme at breaking the tenants and there ya go.

 

[JiffyPopTart]

One interesting version of "codified RP restriction" lives over in the 3rd party Draconic Exemplar from Rite Publishing:

Draconic Exemplar – d20PFSRD

www.d20pfsrd.com

Think something like that could work for paladin oaths?

I could see that as being a set of bones to build something around, but I think I prefer an always-on unavoidable good and bad like the aforementioned idea of a radius that locks down all effects of a certain type.

I picture each oath having a few abilities and a paaldin picks one that applies to them. It alters the rules, but for the entire battlefield, not just the good guys. An Oath of Freedom paladin might choose from the following options....

Aura of Freedom: All saves versus charm or compulsion effects are made with advantage when either the attacker or defender is within 60' of the paladin. A paladins saving throw bonus aura applies to these saves if within the Aura of Freedom range.

Aura of Freedom: All difficult terrain within 120' of the paladin is treated as normal.

Aura of Freedom: Within 60' of the paladin escape attempts to end a grapple automatically succeed and the paladins saving throw bonus aura applies to any saves made to avoid being restrained.