Paladin Multiclass dilemma

[Theroc]

Alrighty. I'm in another game... (I have a tendency to join just about any 3.5 PbP Enworld creates, if any idea at all strikes me before recruitment closes), and I have another issue.

Game sounds to be very undead-heavy(and the DM has essentially told use primary enemies will be undead) and I'd intended on making a tank/meatshield. I originally was looking toward Knight or Barbarian(Either a true tank, or a damage dealer who can draw opposing attacks due to hitting hard...), but the Knight's challenge doesn't work well on mindless undead.

So, I got some advice from some sources and decided I wanted to make a Paladin.

That's when I ran into my problem.

My initial concept for the character was a Changeling Warshaper(DM has ruled I CAN do this, I am aware this is most likely not typically allowed[It's allowed under the condition that so long as we are pre-epic, the strength and constitution bonus for the second level benefit is +2/+2 rather than +4/+4]) which would mean as soon as I start taken levels into the initial part of my build, I would ban myself from further progress in the class I initially used to qualify for it.

I'm hoping perhaps someone can think of a way to get things so that once I complete the Warshaper PrC levels, I can then continue with levels in Paladin until I find a PrC or something that I could take up to continue with the Paladin-like progress.

Materials available: DM has allowed any and ALL resources, so long as they are listed first, and on the condition that we do not ABUSE the liberty. So I'd like to avoid anything overly munchkin.

Edit: Please check my resources available when giving advice. If it's not in that sblock, it means I cannot access it at all, and would need to be shown the material in question in order to use it.

Starting Level is 8, and it's 36 Point buy (though I doubt that snippet is needed).

Anyone have any advice? I'd much appreciate it.

 

[Magesmiley]

The obvious choice would be the Knight Training feat from the Eberron Campaign Setting book. It allows you to gain levels in one class you select without preventing you from taking further paladin levels.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

How about a TWF Ranger? If you had Races of the Wild, I'd say to make a Wood Elf (MM) and take the 1st level elven ranger substitution level from that book, so you would get +3 favored enemy bonus on undead, and an additional +3 each time you later chose to raise it. Without RotW, well...you wanted to do Changeling Warshaper anyway. (Though, I think with the changiling Racial Emulation feat, you could benefit from the racial ranger sub. level whenever in elf form, so it'd still be an option).

Take the Improved Favored Enemy feat, and well...be really good at hurting undead. Ranger and Paladin even have a multiclass feat, if you wanted to level in paladin, too.

EDIT: Alternatively, work out some kind of multi-weapon fighting ranger bonus feat progression with your DM, if you want to do natural weapon attacks. You could still just wield 2 manufactured weapons and grow a tentacle or whatever as a secondary natural attack via warshaper, so it still works even without.

 

[Theroc]

How about a TWF Ranger? If you had Races of the Wild, I'd say to make a Wood Elf (MM) and take the 1st level elven ranger substitution level from that book, so you would get +3 favored enemy bonus on undead, and an additional +3 each time you later chose to raise it. Without RotW, well...you wanted to do Changeling Warshaper anyway. (Though, I think with the changiling Racial Emulation feat, you could benefit from the racial ranger sub. level whenever in elf form, so it'd still be an option).

Take the Improved Favored Enemy feat, and well...be really good at hurting undead. Ranger and Paladin even have a multiclass feat, if you wanted to level in paladin, too.

EDIT: Alternatively, work out some kind of multi-weapon fighting ranger bonus feat progression with your DM, if you want to do natural weapon attacks. You could still just wield 2 manufactured weapons and grow a tentacle or whatever as a secondary natural attack via warshaper, so it still works even without.

Decent idea, but I'm the groups primary tank, so losing the 2 HP per die and the heavy armor and such sounds like a bad trade if I'm to be chillin' up front against hordes of undead.

Forgot to mention: HP is max per level.

I don't have RoTW, so that'd be a bit difficult unless it's in Wizard's Snippet... which I doubt.

 

[Herobizkit]

I don't know what a warshaper is or does, but I am of the opinion that if you want to be a tank, a Warforged paladin (with Adamantine Plating) would be your best bet.

 

[Theroc]

I don't know what a warshaper is or does, but I am of the opinion that if you want to be a tank, a Warforged paladin (with Adamantine Plating) would be your best bet.

Warshaper is a PrC from Complete Warrior that grants bonuses while in any form besides your 'natural' form... such as 100% Fortification, Immunity to Stunning, creating/enhancing natural weapons, ability score bonuses, and fast healing among other things.

 

[kevin_video]

Crystal Keep is your friend. If you don't have access to all the books, don't worry about it because the pdfs have it all for the Base Classes.

First off, don't go with your typical Paladin. Go with the Paladin of Freedom (CG alignment) from Unearthed Arcana, or with Avenger (also CG) from Dragon Magazine 310 p49. And if you don't want your Mount, take Charging Smite (PHBII).

As previous said, a Warforged Paladin is handy, and quite nice (you can smite a Construct or Evil) but you lose Lay on Hands (for Repair Damage to yourself), and a good portion of your skills.

If your DM's honestly worried about cross-classing outside of Paladin, then Knight Training is the most essential feat to take. And while I know you want to be a tank, you can easily take Holy Monk which cross-classes with the Paladin (Dragon Mag 310 p45 or Crystal Keep base class pdf) without any penalty, or just go straight Holy Monk. Monk's aren't terrible. You just wouldn't be able to use heavy armour, and they get Turn Undead at 1st lvl. They're LG, LE, or LN. If you do cross class them, you can take Ascetic Knight, which stacks the two levels for Unarmed Damage and Smite X/day and damage.

Devoted Inquistor lets you take Rogue and cross-class with a Paladin. How can this be effective? There are crystals called True Death (least, lesser, greater) that allow you to deal extra damage against undead depending on what kind of weapon it is (masterwork = +1d6, +1 weapon = +1d6 with ghost touch, +3 weapon = above bonuses + ability to use sneak attack and flanks).

The other feats aren't so great, but you could take Ranger for the Favored Enemy Undead bonuses, sacrifice the Animal Companion at lvl 4 for the Solitary Hunting substitute (which you get at 1st lvl) and adds your FE damage bonus to your attack against your FE, and take the Devoted Tracker feat which combine the Paladin and Ranger lvls.

Other than that, not much else.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Alrighty. I'm in another game... (I have a tendency to join just about any 3.5 PbP Enworld creates, if any idea at all strikes me before recruitment closes), and I have another issue.
So, I got some advice from some sources and decided I wanted to make a Paladin.
<snip>
That's when I ran into my problem.

My initial concept for the character was a Changeling Warshaper(DM has ruled I CAN do this, I am aware this is most likely not typically allowed[It's allowed under the condition that so long as we are pre-epic, the strength and constitution bonus for the second level benefit is +2/+2 rather than +4/+4]) which would mean as soon as I start taken levels into the initial part of my build, I would ban myself from further progress in the class I initially used to qualify for it.

I'm hoping perhaps someone can think of a way to get things so that once I complete the Warshaper PrC levels, I can then continue with levels in Paladin until I find a PrC or something that I could take up to continue with the Paladin-like progress.
<snip>
Starting Level is 8, and it's 36 Point buy (though I doubt that snippet is needed).

One simple option is the Prestige Paladin, a PrCl found in both Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.

Prestigious Character Classes :: d20srd.org

Bonus: no multiclassing restriction.

 

[kevin_video]

One simple option is the Prestige Paladin, a PrCl found in both Unearthed Arcana and the SRD.

Prestigious Character Classes :: d20srd.org

Bonus: no multiclassing restriction.

That's pretty good. I'd also ask to house rule it so you don't have to go LG alignment if you don't want to, and just swap out a few things here and there for a variant paladin (like Paladin of Freedom) if you're not looking to play a LG character. Also look for something that can switch out the horse if you don't want it. Take the feat Extra Smite or something. Of course you'll have to get this approved by the DM.

I never did understand why the hell a Paladin needed Mounted Combat. Especially with all the variants out there that get rid of the thing.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I never did understand why the hell a Paladin needed Mounted Combat. Especially with all the variants out there that get rid of the thing.

It dates back to earlier editions of the game in which the Paladin became a subclass of the Cavalier, which was the quintessential mounted combatant.

This was done because so many legendary examples of paladins were horsemen of great skill...mostly because they were raised to be such. Only a few, like Jeanne D'arc (Joan of Arc), achieved their status as Paladin from being born as peasants.