Paladins and Prisoners of War

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

I think the BoED has something on converting evil folks to good using diplomacy... it does take a long, long time though.

But if Justice has already extended her mercy to the evil wizards, she should have a hard time taking it back... I don't think that killing them immediately after discovering them would be out of the question, but if you've let them live so far...

As far as POWing being contrary to LG, I would say that POWing itself is morally ambiguous. POWing to torture them and terrorize the rest of your enemies isn't Good. POWing them to convert them ("re-education"?) could be Good. POWing them to sow riot and chaos isn't Lawful. And doing so to detain the POWs from sowing riot and discord can be Lawful. To what purpose did Justice take the POWs?

Haven't taken them, yet. Just contimplating whether or not she can or would, really.

I would take them to attempt to convert them and to get them out of my hair while our group of heores searches the library for a very powerful weapon that they are, undoubtely, looking for, too.

Thanks The_Universe (my DM) for your input!

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

My big question is have we... I mean they... actually seen the mages in question performing vile acts?

Nope, we haven't really spent enough time watching them to observe something like that, though.

 

[Rackhir]

First, taking POW is an action in a war between two governments/countries with organized formal militaries. It's a way of permiting soldiers to surrender and not having to slaughter every defeated enemy. It also is part of the distinction between soldiers and civilians. You can't hold civilians as POWs for example.

It certainly wasn't a medieval concept, they did hold valuable prisoners for ransom, but anyone not worth money would either be slaughtered, enslaved or released. Nor is the concept of POWs really applicable in a rebellion. Unless your group is being funded and based out of another country that could take the POWs, you are talking about basically kidnapping or imprisoning them.

Finally, unless these wizards are 1st level or weaker, holding them is creating a bigger long term threat. Especially if they are a group of fundamentally evil MUs. It is extremely difficult to keep groups of prisoners that substantially outnumber their captors, without having to resort to extreme terror tactics. If these are casters of any significant power then that might not even be possible, especially if you hand them off to any group of lesser power.

 

[INSERTWITTYNAMEHERE]

Well i just was in a paladin campain and the point of view that we used was. If you attack the party thats attacking an officer, that resaults in jail time and if you do something that breaks the law then you get jail time.... it really depends on the situation but almost always taking a prisoner is a good idea because a paladin almost never has a problem with a good character.

 

[qstor]

Finally, unless these wizards are 1st level or weaker, holding them is creating a bigger long term threat. Especially if they are a group of fundamentally evil MUs. It is extremely difficult to keep groups of prisoners that substantially outnumber their captors, without having to resort to extreme terror tactics.

but I agree to take them prisoner would be the lawful thing to do..

Mike

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

but I agree to take them prisoner would be the lawful thing to do..

Mike

Right now, I'm working on having some Sigils of Anti-Magic made to hold them without fear of all their crazy casting...

Just have to round up the insane amout of gold that it will take to have the actual prison built.

 

[Felix]

Bound, gagged, blindfolded, without spell components, sitting in solitary. That'll generally stop casters from casting.

Is that against your code? Dunno. Lawful Stoopid might want to provide every amenity for these prisoners, make sure they are comfortable, entertained, not put-upon or embarassed by their imprisonment. That would likely bankrupt you and make it easier for them to escape. Bugger that.

I'd equate these guys with the independent contractors that were killed when the second Death Star was destroyed. They were just doing their job, right? Well, they knew the risk when they took the job, they decided to work for the evil Empire, and they got theirs. So I think these casters can put up with a few weeks in the hole while you sort the bad guys out.

 

[Sado]

What would Jesus do?

 

[Sejs]

However, I don't know if a lawful good character can take and keep a POW. I do not intend to torture or to allow torture... they will be kept in good health an not abused... but, is the actual act of taking a POW contrary to a lawful good alignment?

Actually, one sec.. lemme boil that down a bit more..

but, is the actual act of taking a POW contrary to a lawful good alignment?

No, it is not.





Couple quick side notes.
1) You need to ask yourself are they worth taking as prisoners, and if they can reasonably be convinced to change sides. Are these red mages just some guys that work for King Evil doing research for him, or are they part of his King Evil's Evil Club of Doing Evil? You know, spreading misery and eatting babies brains, that sort of thing. Research mages - worthwhile prisoners. Club Evil mages - not worthwhile as prisoners. And always, always remember that prisoners consume resources for as long as you hold onto them. As long as they're in your care, they're not fighting for the other guy, but at the same time, they are on your meal ticket.

2) There is a difference between Prisoners and Prisoners of War. Important to also note that you can't take prisoners of war unless you are some form of soverign power that is at War (actual, declared War. Big W War) with another soverign power. That aside - the purpose of a prisoner is to be detained, and maybe to provide some information or cheap labor. The purpose of a prisoner of war is to be detained, maybe provide some information or cheap labor, and to then be traded back to their own country in exchange for something you want. If you don't plan on giving them back/using them as a bargaining chip, then you have the normal kind of prisoner. If you're a scrappy group of rag-tag rebels looking to overthrow King Badguy, you don't take POWs because frankly there won't be a point where you're negotiating with King Badguy. King Badguy is The Man, and The Man doesn't negotiate with rag-tag rebels, scrappy or otherwise.


In summation, yes a lawful good person can take prisoners. Even a paladin. Whether it is a good idea to take prisoners or not, however, varies from situation to situation.

 

[Queen_Dopplepopolis]

2) There is a difference between Prisoners and Prisoners of War. Important to also note that you can't take prisoners of war unless you are some form of soverign power that is at War (actual, declared War. Big W War) with another soverign power. That aside - the purpose of a prisoner is to be detained, and maybe to provide some information or cheap labor. The purpose of a prisoner of war is to be detained, maybe provide some information or cheap labor, and to then be traded back to their own country in exchange for something you want. If you don't plan on giving them back/using them as a bargaining chip, then you have the normal kind of prisoner. If you're a scrappy group of rag-tag rebels looking to overthrow King Badguy, you don't take POWs because frankly there won't be a point where you're negotiating with King Badguy. King Badguy is The Man, and The Man doesn't negotiate with rag-tag rebels, scrappy or otherwise.

In some ways, we are a "soverign" power-- our little rag tag rebellion has grown substantially now that we have raised our own Queen. A queen that we believe is the legitimate heir to power because of a bunch of crazy evil things that he did in order to recieve the "okay, you can be give" from the nobels council..

So, yes-- Justice the Paladin would believe that we are a the soverign power based on the fact that the king has violated his agreement with the people... and we now have the rightful monarch sitting our our quaint rebel camp.