Paladin's Divine Grace - Cha bonus or unnamed bonus?

[Knight Otu]

As came up in this thread, I'm wondering if a paladin's divine grace bonus type is Charisma, or if it is untyped. In the thread, I said that it seems likely to be Charisma, but checking the wording of the ability and similar ones, I am now more leaning to untyped, while the balckguard ability would be Charisma, and the duelist ability would be Intelligence...

Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Dark Blessing (Su): A blackguard applies his Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus on all saving throws.

Canny Defense (Ex): When not wearing armor or using a shield, a duelist adds 1 point of Intelligence bonus (if any) per duelist class level to her Dexterity bonus to modify Armor Class while wielding a melee weapon. If a duelist is caught flat-footed or otherwise denied her Dexterity bonus, she also loses this bonus.

 

[hong]

AFAIK noone except Hyp thinks "Charisma", "Dexterity", "Strength" etc are bonus types when it comes to stacking. It's an unnamed bonus that's equal to the bonus derived from your Cha.

 

[Gez]

*Beats hong with a stick for posting my reply before I could.*

 

[Thanee]

The wording in the Canny Defense ability is misleading, it's a "bonus equal to the Int bonus (a positive ability modifier is called a bonus)", but that's two different kinds of bonuses, the Int bonus is a positive ability modifier, while the bonus added to the AC is the bonus type, which is unnamed.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd say the Paladin's is unnamed, the Blackguard's is a Cha bonus, and the Duellist is an Intelligence bonus... but not an Int bonus to AC. It's an Int bonus to your Dex bonus to AC.

It would thus stack with an Int bonus to AC, but not with another Int bonus to Dex bonus.

-Hyp.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'd say the Paladin's is unnamed, the Blackguard's is a Cha bonus, and the Duellist is an Intelligence bonus... but not an Int bonus to AC. It's an Int bonus to your Dex bonus to AC.

It would thus stack with an Int bonus to AC, but not with another Int bonus to Dex bonus

Yeah ... that's exactly what they intended.


Jeff

 

[jaker2003]

The Paladin's and Blackgaurd's bonuses are sarced and profane, they are religous fighters, people.

As for the Canny Defense, Hypersmurf nailed it, It's the Dexterity bonus improved by the Intelligence bonus . . . I like Canny Defense.

 

[Knight Otu]

I am honestly a bit surprised that the thought that the ability modifiers are named seems so rare... I mean, they are modifiers, they have names, and I recall no rule that says that they are unnamed.
Of course, it hardly comes up in WotC products, so they might as well be unnamed, but to me, they have all the signs of a named modifier.

Yeah ... that's exactly what they intended.

It may or may not be, but that is what the rules say. Certainly it would be much cleaner if it simply was an Intelligence bonus to AC.

The Paladin's and Blackgaurd's bonuses are sarced and profane, they are religous fighters, people.

While that would be fitting flavorwise, the rules say otherwise.

 

[Hypersmurf]

The wording in the Canny Defense ability is misleading, it's a "bonus equal to the Int bonus (a positive ability modifier is called a bonus)"...

Where do you get that from?

You don't add a bonus equal to your Int bonus (like Divine Grace); you add your Int bonus directly to your Dex bonus.

That unnamed layer of insulation that appears in Divine Grace makes no showing in Canny Defense.

-Hyp.

 

[Thanee]

It's what I think what that means.

Bye
Thanee