Paladin's moral codes

[czak808]

To what level do you restrict a paladin's adventuring options because of their "code of conduct"?

Our group is currently contemplating infiltrating an orc city to gather information on a Warlord and potentially recover a family heirloom of one of the characters.
The paladin is an elven female, so she can't just waltz into the city without becoming an instant pinata.
Can she don a disguise, lie to those asking questions and generally be "sneaky"?

Fools are made to suffer, not to be suffered

 

[DrunkonDuty]

>>>The paladin is an elven female, so she can't just waltz into the city without becoming an instant pinata.
Can she don a disguise, lie to those asking questions and generally be "sneaky"?

Sure. Why not? Does her code prevent her having a brain? Paladins might prefer the up-front honest smacking of villains but I don't see why they should be prevented from engaging in non-upfront smacking. Of course it all depends on how the GM and the paladin player have defined the paladin's code of conduct but I personally think it a bit too much to suggest that the paladin cannot lie to known enemies in order to protect her friends and their mission.

Whether or not she has the skills needed to pull it off is another matter.

 

[shilsen]

Yes, she can. There's a reason Undetectable Alignment is on the paladin spell list.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

The historical and literary antecedents for the Paladin class weren't above using good tactics, including deception.

 

[IamTheTest]

I dont remember the exact quote, which was brilliant, but I think it went something like this...Re: Paladin:: If your opposition is weak act like Superman, if your opposition is strong act like Batman. I really thought that was great.

 

[Voadam]

To what level do you restrict a paladin's adventuring options because of their "code of conduct"?

Our group is currently contemplating infiltrating an orc city to gather information on a Warlord and potentially recover a family heirloom of one of the characters.
The paladin is an elven female, so she can't just waltz into the city without becoming an instant pinata.
Can she don a disguise, lie to those asking questions and generally be "sneaky"?

As a DM I give paladin characters a lot of freedom. "If you're OK with it, then I'm OK with it."

I have one player who loves to play paladins and has very specific views of what lawful good and paladiness mean. And these change over time. He loves the heroic class in part (a big part) for its restrictions. I have not had a problem with him before even though he has done many things I believe others would chastise him severely for.

I treat the code and such as social expectations for paladins. People expect them to be arrogant people on the side of law and order and some version of good and honorable.

I treat supernatural [Evil] as the big thing that can mystically taint a paladin and have consequences for holy powers requiring mystical purification. So while I do not take away powers for how a player roleplays his paladin I have (with a different player in the past) taken away paladin powers for when he was possessed by a necromancer who cast [Evil] spells using his body and supernaturally corrupted it. The paladin then had a quest to cleanse himself which he was very gung ho on after the possession was revealed and the villain was expelled from the paladin.

I don't like the dynamic of judging player choice morality and having them feel I'm constantly judging them. I love the concept of supernatural [evil] as antithetical to using supernatural [good].

 

[Kahuna Burger]

By the book, paladins are forbidden from lying. However, as has been pointed out, they also have a spell aimed towards deception on their spell lists, so they can conceal the truth. If you have been playing a by the book paladin with the default code, this is how I would rule it (and I would discuss it out of character with the player, because this info should be coming from the PC, not surprising her).

The paladin may not lie about herself or her reasons for entering the city. However, she is free to hide those things, and arrange things with the help of other party members so that she is never asked a direct question she needs to lie to. Depending on the level and resources of the party, this sort of silent deception could take many forms, but it's definitely aided by them entering the city as a group. (Off the top of my head, strong silent bodyguard type, human slave and polymorphing her into a pack animal all spring to mind.)

 

[kenobi65]

By the book, paladins are forbidden from lying. However, as has been pointed out, they also have a spell aimed towards deception on their spell lists, so they can conceal the truth.

Saavik: "You lied!"
Spock: "I exaggerated."

(Not that I'm saying Spock is an example of a paladin, but it's an illustration of what may be a fine line.)

 

[prospero63]

To what level do you restrict a paladin's adventuring options because of their "code of conduct"?

Our group is currently contemplating infiltrating an orc city to gather information on a Warlord and potentially recover a family heirloom of one of the characters.
The paladin is an elven female, so she can't just waltz into the city without becoming an instant pinata.
Can she don a disguise, lie to those asking questions and generally be "sneaky"?

I'm always reminded of the following statement:

Lawful good does not equal lawful stupid.

It would be lawful stupid to not sneak into an orc city IMO. I don't expect (and in fact, I discourage) lawful stupid paladins in my game.

 

[Quartz]

A fake scar across the throat can work wonders.