Paladins of Wee Jas?

Psion said:
I think this is one of those cases where you should not let the rules override logic, and simply not allow a paladin of Wee Jas.

A holy warrior (from BotR) with the death and magic domains, OTOH...

Hrm. I don't know that abbreviation. What's a "BotR"?
 

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Dunjin said:
Hrm. I don't know that abbreviation. What's a "BotR"?

= Book of the Righteous, by Green Ronin.

The holy warriors therein get two domains; these domains grant certain abilities, but unlike cleric domains, have nothing to do with spellcasting.

You pick the right domains, and your character is pretty much a paladin. But you can pick different domains giving you different options.
 


My homebrew pantheon includes Selene, the LN Moon Goddess of Death, Magic, Knowlege, Water (tides) and Law.

She's similar to the anti-undead conception of Wee Jas, and her church & paladins work fine in a (mostly) normal D&D setting.

(IMC, I have six non-evil Gods. Evil clerics worship demon princes & arch-devils.)

-- N
 

Conaill said:
Just to watch the metagamers squirm in their seats when my pally's behavior goes straight against the standard paladin code.
When I got tired of all my players' characters introducing themselves as "I'm a Paladin", etc. I created a couple of orders of "knighthood" in my setting.

A "Paladin" basically is just a knighted servent of my world's Heironeous equivalent.

A "Ranger" is part of an order that is, essentially, an adventurers guild made up of people who are loyal to a particular monarch. They're kinda of a Navy SEALs type military body. The killer here is that one branch deals with magical threats and is composed primarily of wizard-types.

I just love saying "The Ranger casts Lightning Bolt" and "He's a Ranger. What makes you think he can use a sword?"
 

Dunjin said:
It seems that if you can have a paladin of St. Cuthbert (Lawful Neutral), you could also have one of Wee Jas (also Lawful Neutral), at least, according to alignment guidelines.

Has anyone ever played this concept? I imagine someone out there has to have done so. How would being pledged to a goddess of death change the paladin's outlook and/or code?

Just curious and interested. Any thoughts?

I'm just going to wander around a bit here, so only read what you want. ;) I wrote a article on Wee Jas for the Oerth Journal a few years back (issue 7), in Faiths & Avatars format. It's still available on the Canonfire website. (the article is also reproduced here http://www.spots.ab.ca/~whytwolf/GH/reference/weejas.htm )

Wee Jas in 1st and 2nd edition, as noted, was LN (E). She had lawful neutral (gray robes) and lawful evil (white robes) followers. Sean Reynolds reversed this later on, or gave evil followers black robes, or something similarly cliched.

She's always been stridently lawful. There are indications she gained the portfolio of death in quasi-recent times; I tied it to the Rain of Colorless Fire and ensuing magic-spawned extinction-level die-off. YMMV.

My take, and I believe this is not too far off from the official version, is that Wee Jas is less concerned about undeath in general than undeath without purpose. She is served by liches and mummies, but abhors mindless and chaoticly natured undead, particularly ghouls, vampires, and other parasitic undead.

A cleric or paladin of Wee Jas rebuking undead instead of turning them could be construed as an attempt to bind the undead to useful service.

As far as magic goes, Wee Jas is more concerned with the control and use of magic than magic as a primal force (in GH, that role is taken by Boccob). She is essentially the goddess of creating new spells or magic items (or, death powers magic...).

I've always thought paladin warriors of Wee Jas would be a cool thing. Black armor, shot through with threads of silver, and a black shield with a red fireball and white skull...

:cool:
Nell.
 

Better late than never...

De’Haran: Paladin of Wee Jas

I have been accepted into the ranks of the most holy. She has seen to turn her gaze upon me and I am unwilling to be out of her sight. I see the flow of blood and magic as one through her eyes. She is the goddess of all that is magic and life eternal. I know that when my body has given up it’s life essence she will look upon me again and if I’m found worthy she will raise me up to the most holy of states. I will become a true servant to her, one of the Undying.
My role in the “Grand Spell” is that of undead slayer. She creates undead and they are her “children” but some are created by the foul magics of rogue Arcanists and they and their creators must be put to a swift end for their blasphemy. My unending crusade is to protect those who would come to an early death at the hands of the unbelievers or the chaos children.


PALADIN of WEE JAS
Alignment: Lawful (any).
Hit Die: d10.

Class Skills
The paladin’s class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Knowledge (Arcana) (Int), Knowledge (religion) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), and Sense Motive (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) x4.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Table: The Paladin
— Spells per Day —
Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special 1st 2nd 3rd 4th
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Aura of Law, detect undead, smite undead 1/day — — — —
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Divine grace, lay on hands — — — —
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Aura of courage, divine health — — — —
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Turn or Rebuke undead 0 — — —
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 smite undead 2/day 0 — — —
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Remove disease 1/week 1 — — —
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Special Mount 1 — — —
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 1 0 — —
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Remove disease 2/week 1 0 — —
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 smite undead 3/day 1 1 — —
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 1 1 0 —
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Remove disease 3/week 1 1 1 —
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 1 1 1 —
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 2 1 1 0
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Remove disease 4/week, smite undead 4/day 2 1 1 1
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 2 2 1 1
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 2 2 2 1
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Remove disease 5/week 3 2 2 1
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 3 3 3 2
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 smite undead 5/day 3 3 3 3

Class Features
All of the following are class features of the paladin.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Paladins are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields).
Aura of Law (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of Law (see the detect Law spell) is equal to her paladin level.
Detect Undead (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect undead, as the spell.
Smite Undead (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level x her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.
Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): When a paladin reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn undead. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns undead as a cleric of three levels lower would.
Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a paladin gains the ability to cast a small number of divine spells, which are drawn from the paladin spell list. A paladin must choose and prepare her spells in advance.
To prepare or cast a spell, a paladin must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a paladin’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the paladin’s Wisdom modifier.
Like other spellcasters, a paladin can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. Her base daily spell allotment is given on Table: The Paladin. In addition, she receives bonus spells per day if she has a high Wisdom score. When Table: The Paladin indicates that the paladin gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level, she gains only the bonus spells she would be entitled to based on her Wisdom score for that spell level The paladin does not have access to any domain spells or granted powers, as a cleric does.
A paladin prepares and casts spells the way a cleric does, though she cannot lose a prepared spell to spontaneously cast a cure spell in its place. A paladin may prepare and cast any spell on the paladin spell list, provided that she can cast spells of that level, but she must choose which spells to prepare during her daily meditation.
Through 3rd level, a paladin has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, her caster level is one-half her paladin level.
Special Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 7th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil (see below). This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin)with the skeleton template.
Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains for 2 hours per paladin level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.
Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.
Should the paladin’s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
Remove Disease (Sp): At 6th level, a paladin can produce a remove disease effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).
Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an Chaotic act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.
Mindless Undead are not to be harmed with out the Goddess’ clergy granting the Paladin authority to do so. Wee Jas is the Goddess of Death and while her clergy use undead servants the Paladin will destroy all undead that were not created under their direction. She is also the Goddess of magic and the Paladin has access to some Arcane spells that she sees as beneficial.
Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any lawful alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate with neutral or Chaotic characters, nor will she continue an association with someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful.

Ex-Paladins
A paladin who ceases to be lawful, who willfully commits an chaotic act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and abilities (including the service of the paladin’s mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any farther in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description), as appropriate.
Like a member of any other class, a paladin may be a multiclass character, but multiclass paladins face a special restriction. A paladin who gains a level in any class other than paladin may never again raise her paladin level, though she retains all her paladin abilities.

THE PALADIN’S MOUNT
The paladin’s mount is superior to a normal mount of its kind and has special powers, as described below. The standard mount for a Medium paladin is a heavy warhorse, and the standard mount for a Small paladin is a warpony. Another kind of mount, such as a riding dog (for a halfling paladin) or a Large shark (for a paladin in an aquatic campaign) may be allowed as well.
A paladin’s mount is treated as a magical beast, not an animal, for the purpose of all effects that depend on its type (though it retains an animal’s HD, base attack bonus, saves, skill points, and feats).

Paladin Level Bonus HD Natural Armor Adj. Str Adj. Int Special
7th +2 +4 +1 6 Empathic link, improved evasion, share spells, share saving throws
8th–10th +4 +6 +2 7 Improved speed
11th–14th +6 +8 +3 8 Command creatures of its kind
15th–20th +8 +10 +4 9 Spell resistance

Paladin’s Mount Basics: Use the base statistics for a creature of the mount’s kind, but make changes to take into account the attributes and characteristics summarized on the table and described below.
Bonus HD: Extra eight-sided (d8) Hit Dice, each of which gains a Constitution modifier, as normal. Extra Hit Dice improve the mount’s base attack and base save bonuses. A special mount’s base attack bonus is equal to that of a cleric of a level equal to the mount’s HD. A mount has good Fortitude and Reflex saves (treat it as a character whose level equals the animal’s HD). The mount gains additional skill points or feats for bonus HD as normal for advancing a monster’s Hit Dice.
Natural Armor Adj.: The number on the table is an improvement to the mount’s existing natural armor bonus.
Str Adj.: Add this figure to the mount’s Strength score.
Int: The mount’s Intelligence score.
Empathic Link (Su): The paladin has an empathic link with her mount out to a distance of up to 1 mile. The paladin cannot see through the mount’s eyes, but they can communicate empathically.
Note that even intelligent mounts see the world differently from humans, so misunderstandings are always possible.
Because of this empathic link, the paladin has the same connection to an item or place that her mount does, just as with a master and his familiar (see Familiars).
Improved Evasion (Ex): When subjected to an attack that normally allows a Reflex saving throw for half damage, a mount takes no damage if it makes a successful saving throw and half damage if the saving throw fails.
Share Spells: At the paladin’s option, she may have any spell (but not any spell-like ability) she casts on herself also affect her mount.
The mount must be within 5 feet at the time of casting to receive the benefit. If the spell or effect has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the mount if it moves farther than 5 feet away and will not affect the mount again even if it returns to the paladin before the duration expires. Additionally, the paladin may cast a spell with a target of “You” on her mount (as a touch range spell) instead of on herself. A paladin and her mount can share spells even if the spells normally do not affect creatures of the mount’s type (magical beast).
Share Saving Throws: For each of its saving throws, the mount uses its own base save bonus or the paladin’s, whichever is higher. The mount applies its own ability modifiers to saves, and it doesn’t share any other bonuses on saves that the master might have.
Improved Speed (Ex): The mount’s speed increases by 10 feet.
Command (Sp): Once per day per two paladin levels of its master, a mount can use this ability to command any other skeletal animal, as long as the target creature has fewer Hit Dice than the mount. This ability functions like the command spell, but the mount must make a DC 21 Concentration check to succeed if it’s being ridden at the time. If the check fails, the ability does not work that time, but it still counts against the mount’s daily uses. Each target may attempt a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 paladin’s level + paladin’s Cha modifier) to negate the effect.
Spell Resistance (Ex): A mount’s spell resistance equals its master’s paladin level + 5. To affect the mount with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the mount’s spell resistance.

EPIC PALADIN
Hit Die: d10.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier.
Lay on Hands (Su): Each day the epic paladin can cure a total number of hit points equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) times her class level, as normal.
Smite Undead (Su): The epic paladin adds her class level to damage with any smite undead attack, as normal. She can smite one additional time per day for every five levels higher than 20th.
Turn or Rebuke Undead (Su): The paladin turns undead as a cleric of two levels lower, as normal.
Spells: The paladin’s caster level is equal to one-half her class level, as normal. The paladin’s number of spells per day does not increase after 20th level.
Special Mount: The epic paladin’s special mount continues to increase in power. Every five levels higher than 20th, the special mount gains +2 bonus Hit Dice, its natural armor increases by +2, its Strength adjustment increases by +1, and its Intelligence increases by +1. The mount’s spell resistance equals the paladin’s class level + 5.
Remove Disease (Sp): The epic paladin can use remove disease one additional time per week for every three levels higher than 18th.
Bonus Feats: The epic paladin gains a bonus feat every three levels higher than 20th.

PALADIN SPELLS
1ST-LEVEL PALADIN SPELLS
Bless: Allies gain +1 on attack rolls and +1 on saves against fear.
Bless Water: Makes holy water.
Bless Weapon: Weapon strikes true against evil foes.
Cause Fear: One creature of 5 HD or less flees for 1d4 rounds.
Create Water: Creates 2 gallons/level of pure water.
Cure Light Wounds: Cures 1d8 damage +1/level (max +5).
Detect Poison: Detects poison in one creature or small object.
Disrupt Undead: Deals 1d6 damage to one undead.
Divine Favor: You gain +1 per three levels on attack and damage rolls.
Endure Elements: Exist comfortably in hot or cold environments.
Magic Weapon: Weapon gains +1 bonus.
Protection from Chaos/Evil: +2 to AC and saves, counter mind control, hedge out elementals and outsiders.
Read Magic: Read scrolls and spellbooks.
Resistance: Subject gains +1 on saving throws.
Restoration, Lesser: Dispels magical ability penalty or repairs 1d4 ability damage.
Summon Monster I: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. May only summon undead
Virtue: Subject gains 1 temporary hp.
2ND-LEVEL PALADIN SPELLS
Bull’s Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
Delay Poison: Stops poison from harming subject for 1 hour/level.
Eagle’s Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
False Life: Gain 1d10 temporary hp +1/level (max +10).
Owl’s Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
Remove Paralysis: Frees one or more creatures from paralysis or slow effect.
Resist Energy: Ignores 10 (or more) points of damage/attack from specified energy type.
Shield Other F: You take half of subject’s damage.
Summon Monster II: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. May only summon undead
Summon Swarm: Summons swarm of undead bats, rats, or spiders.
Undetectable Alignment: Conceals alignment for 24 hours.
Zone of Truth: Subjects within range cannot lie.
3RD-LEVEL PALADIN SPELLS
Cure Moderate Wounds: Cures 2d8 damage +1/level (max +10).
Daylight: 60-ft. radius of bright light.
Discern Lies: Reveals deliberate falsehoods.
Dispel Magic: Cancels spells and magical effects.
Gentle Repose: Preserves one corpse.
Halt Undead: Immobilizes undead for 1 round/level.
Heal Mount: As heal on warhorse or other special mount.
Magic Circle against Chaos: As protection from chaos, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Magic Circle against Evil: As protection from evil, but 10-ft. radius and 10 min./level.
Magic Weapon, Greater: +1 bonus/four levels (max +5).
Prayer: Allies +1 bonus on most rolls, enemies –1 penalty.
Remove Blindness/Deafness: Cures normal or magical conditions.
Remove Curse: Frees object or person from curse.
Summon Monster III: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. May only summon undead
4TH-LEVEL PALADIN SPELLS
Bestow Curse: –6 to an ability score; –4 on attack rolls, saves, and checks; or 50% chance of losing each action.
Break Enchantment: Frees subjects from enchantments, alterations, curses, and petrification.
Cure Serious Wounds: Cures 3d8 damage +1/level (max +15).
Death Ward: Grants immunity to death spells and negative energy effects.
Dispel Chaos: +4 bonus against attacks by chaotic creatures.
Dispel Evil: +4 bonus against attacks by evil creatures.
Fear: Subjects within cone flee for 1 round/level.
Holy Sword: Weapon becomes +5, deals +2d6 damage against evil.
Mark of Justice: Designates action that will trigger curse on subject.
Neutralize Poison: Immunizes subject against poison, detoxifies venom in or on subject.
Restoration M: Restores level and ability score drains.
Shadow Conjuration: Mimics conjuration below 4th level, but only 20% real.
Summon Monster IV: Calls extraplanar creature to fight for you. May only summon undead.
 
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I have always seen Wee Jas as more of a goddess of magic than a goddess of death, personally.

Brennin Magalus said:
Even if one disregards Wee Jas' parenthetical alignment, her clerics wield negative energy, which might be problematic for potential paladins and LG clerics of the goddess.

The dilemma could still be applied to Kelemvor, the FR god of death. He is solidly LN and I think his clerics all use positive energy.


But personally, I have problems wrapping my head around paladins with non-LG deities. In effect, you have a deity that holds his holy warriors to a moral code he does not agree with and I can't figure out why. I can see two ways to rationalize it (surely there are more) :

1) The deity knows that law and goodness is best, but is too morally lazy to act so. In essence, he says to his paladins "Do as I say, not as I do." But this doesn't really work because if it were so, the deities' clerics and followers would be asked the same thing, and you would have a de-facto LG religion with a LN (or CG or whatever) deity.

2) The deity is constrained by some higher power to only grant those powers to LG individuals, so he accepts that in order to have kickass holy warriors, he'll need to have them act in a matter with which he does not agree. This explanation is silly and metagamey, IMO. :)

I just can't find a satisfying explanation for it.

YMMV, of course. I'm not saying y'all should stop playing paladins of dubious deities at all. :D
 


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