Paragon class from UA......

[Darmanicus]

Are these classes unbalanced? I've been having an argument with a mate who seems to think that just because you gain +2 to a stat at say level 3, it's grossly broken. I personally think that +2 to one stat isn't THAT great; there's plenty of comparable bonuses you can obtain out there by gaining a level.

Any thoughts?

 

[Insight]

I like the Racial Paragon classes. It's a cool way to flesh out a character who gains a level but isn't sure what direction to go with classes, prestige classes, etc. The only thing I really don't like about them is more fluff based than anything else, the idea being that these characters are somehow 'better Humans' or 'better Half Orcs' because of taking the class. I see it more as investing time and effort in doing non-class specific things that your race tends to do.

The +2 to a stat sure is nice. It's like enhancing the racial mods you get at first level. I don't find them particularly gross because the Racial Paragon classes themselves don't offer that much wow, and working your way up to 3rd in a Paragon class isn't easy. The +2 mod is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so to speak.

 

[Darkness]

+2 to a stat is nice but having to take 3 levels of racial paragon to get it isn't exactly cheap.

It's quite balanced.

 

[Darmanicus]

I like the Racial Paragon classes. It's a cool way to flesh out a character who gains a level but isn't sure what direction to go with classes, prestige classes, etc. The only thing I really don't like about them is more fluff based than anything else, the idea being that these characters are somehow 'better Humans' or 'better Half Orcs' because of taking the class. I see it more as investing time and effort in doing non-class specific things that your race tends to do.

The +2 to a stat sure is nice. It's like enhancing the racial mods you get at first level. I don't find them particularly gross because the Racial Paragon classes themselves don't offer that much wow, and working your way up to 3rd in a Paragon class isn't easy. The +2 mod is like the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow so to speak.

Agreed. My friend thinks that getting the +2 to the stat AND a spellcasting level is overpowered but just take a look at many of the prestige classes out there that increase caster level AND give you a funky side ability. Even core classes do as much such as the wizard with it's metamagic feat of your choice at every 5th level.

Also 3 levels is a lot to take to get that +2 bonus. Sure you get 1/2 decent skill points and HP's and BAB etc. but in all honesty it's pretty average.

 

[Darkness]

Agreed. My friend thinks that getting the +2 to the stat AND a spellcasting level is overpowered

None of them gives full spellcasting progression (i.e., 3 levels). At best, you get 2 levels of spellcasting over 3 levels of these classes. So a spellcasting level at level 3 is a little less powerful than one in a class with full progression.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

The power levels seem a little uneven to me, but it is hardly grossly overpowered by any stretch.

I would note that most of the classes involve a +3/4 BAB progression, so that +2 bonus to a stat is good but not great for fighting types. Spellcasters are taking at least one level progression hit, so the same story for them.

A few are full +1 BAB progressions (Dwarf, Half-Orc, Orc) and those are pretty attractive to fighting characters. Perhaps a little too powerful there. The PHB Half-Orc is a little underpowered IMO so I do not mind a little boost. The Dwarf and Orc classes have a nice stat boost, but the other abilities are pretty weak.

I would say I think the Gnome, Halfling, and Half-Elf paragon classes are rather weak.

 

[Li Shenron]

I don't think they're overpowered... But as usual, they're better for combat characters than for a spellcaster, which I would probably never take paragon levels for. Depending on what's allowed in the campaign, it can be easier to get the +2 you want by choosing a different race (even for a +1 ECL).

Paragon classes are not something I am fond of (racial feats would have done the job much better), but if you like them I don't think they're overpowered at all. Of course, because of the stat bonus, they're more likely to attract players who want to maximise their main stat.

 

[hero4hire]

They havent proven too unbalanced so far in any of my games.

I think they are pretty cool. The only thing I noticed is taking "Human" is a really nifty way to get Skill Requirements for Prestige Classes.

 

[Darmanicus]

They havent proven too unbalanced so far in any of my games.

I think they are pretty cool. The only thing I noticed is taking "Human" is a really nifty way to get Skill Requirements for Prestige Classes.

I should have mentioned that it was the human one I was mainly interested in; I particularly like the adaptive learning bonus.

My friend still probably won't change his mind with regards to paragons and letting me play one but it good to get your opinions, thanks.

 

[FireLance]

I should have mentioned that it was the human one I was mainly interested in; I particularly like the adaptive learning bonus.

My friend still probably won't change his mind with regards to paragons and letting me play one but it good to get your opinions, thanks.

There's another option if you're introducing a new character or your friend will allow you to retool your character. Races of Destiny has a feat called Adaptive Learner which allows you to get one skill rank for every point that you spend on cross-class skills (instead of half a rank for every skill point). The normal cap on skill ranks for cross-class skills applies, but if a skill is a class skill for any of your classes, this no longer becomes relevant. The only drawback is you have to select it at first level.