Partial Skill Successes (as inspired by Apocalypse World) Suggestions Wanted!

[teach]

So I just got finished reading Apocalypse World, and the way skills (they're called moves in AW) work in that game is that there are complete successes and partial successes. Partial successes usually mean that you succeeded in the skill you were trying to do, but it comes with a catch. I thought that could add a lot to skills in D&D. Plus, everyone I game with loves D&D but aren't as interested in trying something new, so I'm not likely going to get anyone to play Apocalypse World any time soon.

Part of what makes these Partial Successes so great is that the skills in Apocalypse World have ideas for what a partial success will look like. Below, you'll see ideas I have for partial successes for all the D&D skills.

Here's my suggestion for how Partial Successes would work.

Steps to create DCs.

1. Take the DC by RAW. Subtract 3 from it. This is your Partial Success.
2. Now add 4 to the DC by RAW. This is your complete Success.

So, if the DC is 15. The new partial success DC would be 12, and the new complete success would be 19.

Why would I make the Partial Success easier, but the Complete Success harder? Because the Partial Success creates some fun roleplaying opportunities. For example, A possible partial success for diplomacy would be the leader of the group is buying what the PC is saying, but her second in command seems to becoming less and less comfortable with what the PC is saying.

The reason I gave the Partial Success a range of 7 is that the probability of partial successes in AW is about 35% to 50% of the time (you roll 2d6 and + your modifier to your roll). I tried to mimic that with how the probability of a d20 works.

I'd love some suggestions for more partial successes. I'd like to have at least three for every skill. It appears that there might be some skills that don't work as well for partial successes, or maybe I just need to come up with some different partial successes.

Acrobatics* (Dex): Use this skill to test your balance on narrow or unstable surfaces, to escape from a grab or from restraints, and (if you're trained) to reduce your damage when you fall.
You manage to get across, but it takes twice as long.
You manage to get across, but you fall prone at the end.
You don’t escape from the grab or restraints, but you’ve loosened them (+2 to +4 on next check)



Arcana (Int): You have knowledge about magic and magical effects and (if you're trained) you know how to detect a persistent magical effect.
Your knowledge about this topic or monster is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect.



Athletics* (Str): Use this skill to climb, swim, or jump.
You jump or climb across, but slip, miss the landing/fall prone.
You manage to get across, but make a lot of noise doing so. If there is anyone listening for you, they heard you alright.


Bluff (Cha): Use this skill to make what's false appear to be true, fast-talk a guard, con a merchant, or tell lies.
The NPC the PC is trying to convince is in agreement, but his second in command seems to trust the PC less.
The NPC seems to buy what the PC is saying, but asks a pointed question that could catch the PC in the lie.


Diplomacy (Cha): Use this skill to influence others with tact and social grace, change opinions, inspire good will, and to negotiate a deal in good faith.
The NPC the PC is trying to convince is in agreement, but his second in command seems to trust the PC less.
Some in the crowd seem to be on your side, but some have become even more vocal
The NPC is willing to go along with you, but needs a show of good faith.


Dungeoneering (Wis): You have knowledge about forging a path through a dungeon complex, recognizing dungeon hazards, and finding food in the Underdark.
You take a wrong turn, after about 10 minutes of searching, you realize your mistake and make your way back and to the correct way.
Your knowledge about this monster is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect.


Endurance (Con): Use this skill to stave off ill effects and to push beyond normal physical limits.
You manage to stave off the ill effects, but in the process of being healed, you have infected someone else.
At the end of the day, you’re going to need to take a longer than normal rest to gain back all of your healing surges.


Heal (Wis): Use this skill to administer first aid, stabilize a dying character, grant a saving throw, or treat a disease.
You grant the saving throw, but if the player is successful, you catch what he had
You stabilize the dying character, but treat the dying character as having failed one more death save. (only use this once for the character in question)


History (Int) You have knowledge about history, including significant events, legends, customs, and traditions.
Your knowledge about this topic is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect, but that you think might be correct.


Insight (Wis) Use this skill to discern intent and decipher body language, making a best guess as to a target's motives, attitudes, and truthfulness.
You read the emotion correctly, but not the motive
You read the motive correctly, but not the emotion

Intimidate (Cha): Use this skill to influence others through hostile actions and overt threats.
The NPC the PC is trying to convince is in agreement, but his second in command seems to trust the PC less.
The NPC does what you say, but you have now made an enemy for life.


Nature (Int): You have knowledge related to finding your way through the wilderness, recognizing natural hazards, and living off the land.
Your knowledge about this topic or monster is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect.

Perception (Wis): Use this skill to notice clues, spot imminent dangers, and locate hidden objects.
You notice something, but it’s not an important detail. Seems important to you though.


Religion (Int): You have knowledge of religious traditions.
Your knowledge about this topic is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect.


Stealth* (Dex): Use this skill to hide and move silently.
You pick one, you remain silent but stop where you started your stealth move, or you manage to move to where you wanted to go, but are heard.


Streetwise (Cha): You know how to get the lay of the land in an urban setting.
Your knowledge about this topic is slightly flawed. You know 2 pieces of correct information, but 1 piece that is incorrect.


Thievery (Dex): Use this skill to disable traps, open locks, pick pockets, and perform other sleights of hand.
You open the lock, but damage it beyond repair
Pick one, you pick the pocket, but the person notices you, or you don’t pick the pocket, but the person doesn’t notice you.

 

[Zaukrie]

Cool idea. I'll give it more thought, but this is something I can steal for sure. I like more opportunities for skill use, and consequences of skill use.

 

[Hactarcomp]

Neat idea. I've been doing something informally like this, with checks that are more than 5 or 10 (depending) over the DC getting extraordinary results. (Advanced partial payment in addition to a bump in payment when the person giving the job is stingy, some extra information that doesn't directly influence the adventure but reveals more about the campaign world, the person is now not only convinced but also a vocal supporter)

I like the idea of partial successes and will probably be trying to find a way to work it in. I wonder if you could also use this for skill challenges, with 4 failures giving a partially success instead of a complete failure.

 

[LostSoul]

I use the Easy/Moderate/Hard DCs.

Easy = Failure
Moderate = Success
Hard = Success + benefit
Less than Easy = Failure + complication

 

[teach]

Neat idea. I've been doing something informally like this, with checks that are more than 5 or 10 (depending) over the DC getting extraordinary results. (Advanced partial payment in addition to a bump in payment when the person giving the job is stingy, some extra information that doesn't directly influence the adventure but reveals more about the campaign world, the person is now not only convinced but also a vocal supporter)

I like the idea of partial successes and will probably be trying to find a way to work it in. I wonder if you could also use this for skill challenges, with 4 failures giving a partially success instead of a complete failure.

I remember a couple of years ago, as people were working through skill challenges and how to make them work/more engaging for themselves and their players, a lot of people talked about partial successes for skill challenges. I think the DMG II talked about it as well. I really like that approach, but sometimes, I like to just encourage the use of skills without needing to set up a large framework, or I want more help guiding the skill challenge, which I think these partial skill challenges might do.

EDIT: Oh, and I really like you're benefits, particularly the one that gives the players extra background knowledge on the campaign world. One thing Apocalypse World does is sometimes lets the player choose the outcome. Would it work do you think to have a list of benefits or bonus for high skill rolls, and the player can pick one of them if they roll high enough? They would have to somehow come up with a reason why their skill roll would give them that benefit, and maybe you would remove that benefit from the list until all the benefits were chosen. Something like:

Benefits:
1. Pick up a bit of knowledge about the world (+1 to next knowledge skill roll and DM tells you something interesting about the world)
2. Bonus Pay (+5%-10%)
3. +1 to next attack
4. +1 to next defense
5. tell the DM something about his world (suggest something, the DM can ultimately choose whether or not it is actually true, but the two should work together. This would work well with details from a players backstory. (the captain of the guard was actually a childhood friend of the player. They haven't talked in a while, and they aren't friends now, but the Captain might be more predisposed to helping the player (or he might have changed and is corrupt).

Thanks for the suggestion! It got the creative juices flowing for me.

 

[teach]

I use the Easy/Moderate/Hard DCs.

Easy = Failure
Moderate = Success
Hard = Success + benefit
Less than Easy = Failure + complication

I like that idea, since those DC numbers are pretty solid and work well with 4E. the reason I put the complication in with the partial success, is because I like the idea of giving with one hand, and taking with the other.

What kind of benefits do you give the players?

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=45322]teach[/MENTION] I like it!

As far as benefits go, check out 'skill challenges' from Iron Heroes and True20 - these were options a player had to increase a skill DC by +5 in order to potentially gain a sweet extra benefit. For example, a character balancing on a narrow surface could attempt to shake the surface (increasing their Acrobatics DC by +5) and either force all enemies to make Acrobatics checks to balance or impose a +5 DC on future Acrobatics checks of enemies also on the surface.

Here are some more ideas for Streetwise:

Your contacts can get the information, but they'll need longer than an hour to get you something solid - about an extended rest should do the trick.

Your information is solid, but you've drawn attention to yourself - the villains might suspect what you're up to, an NPC might become offended, the authorities intervene, etc.

 

[teach]

[MENTION=45322]teach[/MENTION] I like it!

As far as benefits go, check out 'skill challenges' from Iron Heroes and True20 - these were options a player had to increase a skill DC by +5 in order to potentially gain a sweet extra benefit. For example, a character balancing on a narrow surface could attempt to shake the surface (increasing their Acrobatics DC by +5) and either force all enemies to make Acrobatics checks to balance or impose a +5 DC on future Acrobatics checks of enemies also on the surface.

Here are some more ideas for Streetwise:

Your contacts can get the information, but they'll need longer than an hour to get you something solid - about an extended rest should do the trick.

Your information is solid, but you've drawn attention to yourself - the villains might suspect what you're up to, an NPC might become offended, the authorities intervene, etc.

I like these streetwise partial successes a lot. I think Streetwise is a skill that could definitely work well with partial successes.

Yours inspired another one:

"Your contacts got some information, but it's going to cost you. 25% of a magical item at your level."

And Arcana:

"Your information is solid, but something has noticed your interest in the Arcane."

 

[Quickleaf]

Yours inspired another one:

Arcana:

"Your information is solid, but something has noticed your interest in the Arcane."

Heh. You could get really weird with Arcana, like partial success on a check about the Far Realm could dominate a PC or cause them to speak only Deep Speech for a time. So running with your example, here are several more for detecting magic with Arcana...

Identify conjuration or zone: The conjuration/zone moves toward you as a free action if the creator wishes (if it's a power with no movement instead use creator's speed).

Identify ritual: You gain an unsettling glimpse into the casting of the ritual, and you are effected according to the ritual's category. For example, if you recognize a divination ritual was used you might become blind/deaf for a round while you are accosted by images; or if you identify a binding ritual (like magic circle) you might develop a telepathic bond with the trapped demon.

Identify magical effect: The magical effect triggers or responds to your scrutiny in some way.

Sense the presence of magic: Your detection is blocked by barriers, or strong ambient magic, or some other conditions limiting your area of detection.

 

[LostSoul]

I like that idea, since those DC numbers are pretty solid and work well with 4E. the reason I put the complication in with the partial success, is because I like the idea of giving with one hand, and taking with the other.

What kind of benefits do you give the players?

It depends on what the character's action is. In my game I try to make sure that we resolve the actions of the fictional characters instead of a skill's specific sub-system.

[sblock=My Skill Stuff]I have a slightly different skill system; skills don't have specific roles, they're more like descriptors of the character - her abilities and background. For example, I don't have skills like Athletics or Thievery, I have skills like this:

* Apprentice To - Narska of Asp (human f wizard 7). +7

During my apprenticeship I had to collect reagents from graveyards and other mages/creatures for my mistress. Stole/pick-pocketed from market patrons/shop keepers as per my mistress's wishes. Aided her in the preparation of sacrificial victems/ ritual casting. I was also house chef due to my exotic palette and my ability to take the heat of the ovens.

* Physical Trait - Bulging biceps. +5​

If that skill "obviously applies" then we add the full modifier, or +2 if it's only associated. (Only one skill can be applied, and only one can be associated. Like Burning Empires' skill + FoRK.)

The whole point of this is so that we resolve the character's actions in motion instead of the specific skill's sub-system. A couple of weeks ago the PC with Bulging Biceps was trying to pick up a half-elven bard. He used that skill to "peacock" for her instead of something like Diplomacy.[/sblock]