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Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder 1.5 rumblings: Corefinder

CapnZapp

Legend
I guess we'll see. I don't like the sliding scale of success in Pathfinder 2e at all. When I read about it I thought it would be great but in play it's just a buzzkill. For some reason "sort of" succeeding seems to demoralize players more than failing.
My players complain monsters too often have jarringly superior stats (like to hit and AC) making a straight-up duel unfair, but they definitely show zero signs of being demoralized by rolling successes.

In fact: huh?

I mean, had the complaint been "it's too easy to fail in PF2, especially when up against BBEGs, and the constant failure demoralizes my players" I would at least have understood it. (I would not necessarily agree, but that's another issue) Edit: basically the difference between what nevin said and what Retreater said.

But successes? It just isn't my experience - at all.

Since you need to beat the target number by 10, a critical success is sufficiently exceptional just by occurrence. It doesn't happen so often that getting "just" a regular success feels like some sort of limited success.

Then, effect. Getting a success in PF2 is definitely what you want. It's not some kind of held-back half-success. (Though there ARE individual spells and a few other effects where you might argue otherwise)

So I don't see that at all. God knows I have identified several issues with PF2. This is not one of them.

In fact, the way criticals work in PF2 is a core aspect of the entire system. Its impact is fundamental. It cannot and should not be removed. (Edit: from PF2, that is. Since you obviously can design a system that works well with a different set of rules for criticals, if you just take whatever you end up with into account when you design the fundamentals of the basic engine, the comment would have made no sense if applied to Corefinder - and it isn't)
 

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payn

Hero
Yeah the <10> applied to everything just feels like the old pass/fail only with a super pass/fail attached. A normal success does feel like a consolation prize. Especially, since the enemies beat the living hell out of the PCs with ease.
 

CapnZapp

Legend
Yeah the applied to everything just feels like the old pass/fail only with a super pass/fail attached. A normal success does feel like a consolation prize. Especially, since the enemies beat the living hell out of the PCs with ease.
You say this like it's established fact.

Yet I don't see it. A success feels like a success, not some marginal failure.

Again, not arguing for it in Corefinder. It works in Pathfinder 2 because that game was built up from the ground with it in mind.

Just going "the thing seems nifty, let's add that" to a different system probably doesn't work.
 

Justice and Rule

Adventurer
You say this like it's established fact.

Yet I don't see it. A success feels like a success, not some marginal failure.

Again, not arguing for it in Corefinder. It works in Pathfinder 2 because that game was built up from the ground with it in mind.

Just going "the thing seems nifty, let's add that" to a different system probably doesn't work.

As someone who wasn't huge on 3.X in general, couldn't the idea at least help bring about some of the nice gradations that appear in PF2 or does it intrinsically need a full rebuild on that front? I've found from my play that the gradations help balance magic, which has always been something of a problem with 3.X (or at least it was when I looked at 3.X so long ago).
 

payn

Hero
You say this like it's established fact.

Yet I don't see it. A success feels like a success, not some marginal failure.

Again, not arguing for it in Corefinder. It works in Pathfinder 2 because that game was built up from the ground with it in mind.

Just going "the thing seems nifty, let's add that" to a different system probably doesn't work.
I did say "feel" which isnt fact, its opinion. Maybe with better math, it might feel better, but if I was making PF1.5 I wouldn't use it at all. In fact, I miss crit ranges and damage multipliers a lot.
 


Wolf72

Explorer
We're definitely working to crack the code on both of those issues - winnowing down the Christmas tree-ing of items and making combat more dynamic and less "stand and smash"/"save or suck."

And Skill points? ... I'm more of a lurker now, family and all, ... but one thing that got silly real fast was Super high skill points and DCs (RW already mentioned traps). (one way I thought of for HR was lvls 1-10 normal, 11-19 1/3, 20+ 1/4 ... but all that does is slow it down)
 

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