Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder 1.5 rumblings: Corefinder

[ZeshinX]

No worries. Perhaps you could clarify one of the comments. You mentioned that the design / presentation was one of the better aspects. If didn't notice anything innovative in this regard on a quick pass. How do you feel it does well on that front.

FYI, in general I hate the 3e/PF1e book design / format / presentation and that is one reason I skipped that edition. However, I am not familiar with adventure design from the era either.

For me, it's strongly an appreciation for the aesthetic presentation. I like how it's organized, find it very easy to read and follow, the quality of the materials (since I bought physical copies and not digital ones) used to make it feels good and seems pretty durable (no falling out pages, ink smudging, pages don't easily tear simply leafing through, etc), the quality and contrast of the text on the background (contributes to the easy to read/on the eyes), I enjoy the art...it all just strikes a chord with me.

As far as innovation goes...I don't particularly care if it's innovative or not. I care if it's organized well, easy to follow, easy to read (ease on the eyes and well written), has well developed lore with more than a passing summary of people and places and events that are relevant to whatever story is being offered. It also offered plenty of plot and character ideas and concepts I could easily pluck and drop into my own adventures.

Plus, this was also the first strong look at the OA-styled area of Golarion (or at least a small section thererin with significant detail) which I had been hoping to see for PF at some point (to see if it would offer region-specific player options as well as far as character creation, magic items, etc).

Then you factor in the nostalgia element...it all just coalesced for me. It also suggested to me Paizo really do want to put out the best product they can put out because of those factors I mentioned that I value highly. That's hardly definitive for anyone but myself of course, but that's the impression it left me with (however weakly or strongly others may interpret my own valuations).

I find WotC adventure products, historically, have been bare minimum efforts in the areas I value. Certainly not all I'm sure, since I haven't read them all. I have an enormous soft-spot for the original Ruins of Undermountain boxed set from the AD&D 2e era (first boxed set I ever owned), which is why I had asked for the Mad Mage adventure for 5e (to see if it would stir joyful memories of that original boxed set). It stirred some, but overall I was massively unimpressed. It just seemed so minimal and cheaply made and rushed (not saying that it is, merely that that's how I felt upon reading it).

Obviously massive amounts of work go into any adventure no matter who produces them and I don't criticize the talents of those who contribute to them in whatever fashion. Simply, the completed work for most of the TSR/WotC adventures I've come across have (almost) always disappointed. Mad Mage, for instance, is to my aesthetic tastes, just one ugly-arse book (sloppy organization, hard on the eyes over a short time, minimal world building, NPCs that amount to little more than simple stat blocks, etc).

 

[dave2008]

For me, it's strongly an appreciation for the aesthetic presentation. I like how it's organized, find it very easy to read and follow, the quality of the materials (since I bought physical copies and not digital ones) used to make it feels good and seems pretty durable (no falling out pages, ink smudging, pages don't easily tear simply leafing through, etc), the quality and contrast of the text on the background (contributes to the easy to read/on the eyes), I enjoy the art...it all just strikes a chord with me.

As far as innovation goes...I don't particularly care if it's innovative or not. I care if it's organized well, easy to follow, easy to read (ease on the eyes and well written),

Well organized is the innovation to me. Most adventures are a mess IMO. Did like how 4e adventures put all the relevant info in in the encounter area as opposed to having to look it up in an appendix (like 5e mostly, but not always). I guess I will have to take a look and see if it is well organized to me. That is a subjective thing as well actually.

has well developed lore with more than a passing summary of people and places and events that are relevant to whatever story is being offered. It also offered plenty of plot and character ideas and concepts I could easily pluck and drop into my own adventures.

That sounds good (as long as it is not tied to Golarion). I will have to take a closer look as I didn't get that impression on quick look (at least compared to the 5e adventures I have).

... which is why I had asked for the Mad Mage adventure for 5e (to see if it would stir joyful memories of that original boxed set). It stirred some, but overall I was massively unimpressed. It just seemed so minimal and cheaply made and rushed (not saying that it is, merely that that's how I felt upon reading it).

I don't have that one, but it is one of the worst reviewed of the 5e adventures.

Obviously massive amounts of work go into any adventure no matter who produces them and I don't criticize the talents of those who contribute to them in whatever fashion. Simply, the completed work for most of the TSR/WotC adventures I've come across have (almost) always disappointed.

That has generally been true about all adventures I've looked at (TSR, WotC, Paizo). I just generally find adventures disappointing compared to the stories my group comes up with. However, on thing I've liked about most of the 5e adventures I have purchased are all of the bits of fluff, lore, mechanics, encounters, etc. I can grab and use for my games. Hopefully the Jade Regent will provide that when I get into it more (well except for the mechanics part - don't need that).

 

[ZeshinX]

That sounds good (as long as it is not tied to Golarion). I will have to take a closer look as I didn't get that impression on quick look (at least compared to the 5e adventures I have).

Certainly some elements are easier to pluck than others.

 

[CapnZapp]

...

Can I ask you - solely out of curiosity - if you have looked at Curse of Strahd?

 

[LegendaryGames]

It says there’s room for innovation on the players’ side, but does that mean it won’t be compatible with existing PF1 character options? This feels like a recipe for disappointment.

Corefinder is intended to be backwards compatible with PF1, though there will be a certain amount of new rules and options and a lot of condensing and streamlining of redundant and/or kludgy rules that have piled up over the decade of PF1's lifespan.

 

[LegendaryGames]

Is that going to be considered 3.875th edition?

Pretty much! LOL

 

[LegendaryGames]

"it fixes the broken"

Yeah, right.

Hey, that's the eternal challenge of any kind of game design, since "broken" is often very much in the eye of the beholder, but with a team of very experienced Pathfinder designers and newer folks as well we've got a pretty good handle on the rough parts of the system that need refinement. No system will ever be perfect for everyone, but we'll be doing our darndest to make it as perfect as it can be!

 

[LegendaryGames]

Makes sense that people who broke away from 3e because of 4e would consider breaking away from Pathfinder now that PF2e incorporates elements of 4e. My question is whether those who are dissatisfied with PF2e would be better-served just moving to 5e (not sure of the answer, just asking the question).

That's the open question: Is there enough of a market for this kind of project to make it worth the effort? It's something we thought about opening up a year and a half ago but decided to hold off and see how things played out with the overall Pathfinder marketplace with 1st and 2nd Edition, and we think we've hit upon some ideas to hit a sweet spot in between. We will see how it all plays out.

 

[LegendaryGames]

Genre-free? Does this mean it's possible for different genres: sci-fi, gothic horror, Lovecraftian pulp, superheroes, second world war..?

Yes.

The plan is to create a core version of the essential mechanics of the system, with then modules added on to suit the various genres. Heroic Fantasy will be the first of those modules, as sales trends suggest that's the biggest market for TTRPGs, but there's so much room beyond for additional genre modules.

 

[LegendaryGames]

Interesting, and hard to say at the moment. I'm in a D&D 5e game that bailed on PF2. I suspect they might just stick with 5e. I'm also in a PF1 game that didn't go to PF2. They might be interested in taking a look at CoreFinder.

EDIT: I also suspect that unless CoreFinder ends up with Hero Lab (native version) support, we probably wouldn't use it.

I hope you do check it out, though given the difficulties in getting things processed through the HeroLab system (especially on the Pathfinder 1st Ed side now), I doubt that is going to be likely. It'd be great if we could, but... let's just say there are challenges.