Pathfinder 2 Playtest Preorders, Podcasts, & "Pathfinder 1.5"

In today's Pathfinder 2nd Edition news roundup, the playtest book preorders go live, Bulmahn and Radney-McFarland appear on a podcast, and what it would take to make "Pathfinder 1.5". As always this information will be added to the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compiled Info Page!

In today's Pathfinder 2nd Edition news roundup, the playtest book preorders go live, Bulmahn and Radney-McFarland appear on a podcast, and what it would take to make "Pathfinder 1.5". As always this information will be added to the Pathfinder 2nd Edition Compiled Info Page!


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  • The Pathfinder Playtest book preorders are now open! You can per-order your playtest book, adventure, and flip-mat between now and May 1st. Of course, you'll b able to grab them for free in August as PDFs if you don't want the physical playtest books.
  • At Gary Con, Jason Bulmahn and Stephen Radney-McFarland hosted a seminar about Pathfinder 2nd Edition. You can listen to it on the Plot Points Podcast. The podcast is about 90 minutes long.
  • In response to how much information the Paizo preview blogs contain -- "The blogs are not going to be dropping huge excerpts of the book. There is a very simple reason for this... it is still in edit, and layout. Then it needs to be copy fit and go through a few more rounds of edit. To top it off, we are still making changes and will, much to our publishers chagrin, continue to do so until the very last moment. That said... we also had to announce it if we were going to let retailers and stores have a chance to participate in the release. Thats just how the distribution system works. So... the best we can do right now is to give everyone an idea of how things work. We've already leaked things that have been changed and I am trying to keep that to a minimum so that the game we are talking about is the game you are going to get to playtest. It's not ideal... but it is the best we can do right now. I hope that helps understand where we are at." (Bulmahn)
  • Vic Wertz talks a little about what it would take for a third party publisher to use the OGL to produce a "Pathfinder 1.5" (or "D&D 3.85") -- "There's an inherent difficulty in that concept, though. If you've been reading playtest feedback—or even if you haven't, but you just know a bunch of gamers—you will know that there's a spectrum of desire here. On one end, there are players want no changes whatsoever; on the other, there are players who want changes to anything and everything to be considered. Most people are somewhere in between. Paizo has staked out a spot on that spectrum. Playtest feedback might move us one way or the other a little bit, but as far as broad strokes go, the playtest will show you where we stand. (In our opinion, it's not all that far from 1st Edition.) Any "3.85" concept has to have SOME changes—otherwise, it's just First Edition, and there's no point republishing that, because we're keeping it in print in softcover and PDF. So 3.85 cannot capture the "no changes" audience. A successful 3.85 publisher would therefore need to capture a viable number of people who think 1E needs to change, but who also think that 2E is changing too much. Are there enough of those to form a viable audience for your work? Even if there are enough, here's where it gets really challenging: By definition, that group of people has strong opinions about what they want. But they will not be of a single mind—that is, even if they generally agree on how much things should change, they won't necessarily agree on what should change, or on how each of those things should be changed. There's not some magic set of precise changes you can make to capture them all. Some of the choices you make will lose some of them. Can you make enough of the right decisions to keep enough of them (assuming there were even enough of them to start with)?"
  • Mark Seifter on "flipping" enemy criticals -- "The best part comes when you're cruising along doing pretty well with your combo and punishing enemy crits (maybe even with a paladin buddy to also hit and debuff when they crit your druid), only to come across an opponent who does something extra and really nasty on a critical hit! Flips it back around for a double flip. Jason was the main designer of these kinds of flips, where you punish an enemy critical."
  • Seifter talks some more about rules language and terminology -- "We want language that can both be quite precise, with rules terms used consistently, but also sound plain, natural, and elegant rather than clunky. We think we've figured out a way to have our cake and eat it though, thanks to Logan's masterstroke of making certain rules elements act as nouns, certain rules elements (like actions) act as verbs, and certain rules elements act as adjectives and then allow natural language usage. So for instance, the blog mentions the Stride action, so we can say "whenever you Stride, you ignore difficult terrain" or "While Striding, you gain concealment against any reactions" or "Whenever an enemy in your reach Strides" or any other form of the verb. Like many of these wording-based decisions, this is the kind of thing that might seem like it could be "obvious" in hindsight but still takes inspiration to realize."
  • Seifter comments on the rogue's Instant Opening ability -- "Instant Opening might not seem as cool as it actually is because it might be easy to assume that it requires some kind of check (or a failed save, or a roll of some kind) in order to work. But it actually works automatically. So one action from you equals two rounds of AC debuffs and all your sneak attack-related favorites. And it's not flanking, so all-around vision-type abilities won't help them."
  • 30-40 class feats to choose from? "Compared to '3 or 4' class feats, the fighter alone has more than 10 times that number (not going to be more specific because, as Jason has said, we aren't through with copyfitting, so we don't know how many are going to fit)." (Seifter)
 

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Shasarak

Banned
Banned
It would be nice if they offered free PDFs for Pathfinder 2, instead of you know, having people buy some books that they can ship to the house, and eventually update the rules on anyway.

I would be surprised if you could not get the rules free on the internet like you can for PF1.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I’m torn. I want a physical copy and I generally prefer my RPG books in hardcover, but it’s a lot to spend on rules that I know are available for free and will be outdated in a year. Especially since if I run the playtest I will probably do so online. I’ll probably end up waiting until the last minute to finalize my decision.
 

Zarithar

Adventurer
So this is just my opinion, and probably going to irritate some... but here goes: When Pathfinder came out it was met with near universal praise. There was a large amount of discontent with 4e D&D, and Pathfinder provided an alternative to that (in spades).
Fast forward to 2018. D&D 5e is well-loved by much of the player base and continues to sell exceedingly well. D&D is arguably more popular now than it ever has been. There are a couple of things going against PF 2nd edition in my mind.

1. There have been an almost literal ton of books released for Pathfinder. People who were loyal to that edition have invested hundreds of dollars on those books. Many PF devotees will stick with PF 1.0

2. There is no huge outcry against 5th edition D&D as there was with 4th edition.

I am just not seeing a huge demand for this. I certainly wish Paizo well. I've purchased a number of PF products and Starfinder as well. Even though PF is no longer my fantasy RPG of choice, I continue to use their excellent adventure paths, which are easy enough to convert to 5e D&D. All that being said, I just am not seeing a huge outcry or a whole lot of excitement for a 2nd edition of Pathfinder from more than a few dozen folks on these forums.
 



Arilyn

Hero
So this is just my opinion, and probably going to irritate some... but here goes: When Pathfinder came out it was met with near universal praise. There was a large amount of discontent with 4e D&D, and Pathfinder provided an alternative to that (in spades).
Fast forward to 2018. D&D 5e is well-loved by much of the player base and continues to sell exceedingly well. D&D is arguably more popular now than it ever has been. There are a couple of things going against PF 2nd edition in my mind.

1. There have been an almost literal ton of books released for Pathfinder. People who were loyal to that edition have invested hundreds of dollars on those books. Many PF devotees will stick with PF 1.0

2. There is no huge outcry against 5th edition D&D as there was with 4th edition.

I am just not seeing a huge demand for this. I certainly wish Paizo well. I've purchased a number of PF products and Starfinder as well. Even though PF is no longer my fantasy RPG of choice, I continue to use their excellent adventure paths, which are easy enough to convert to 5e D&D. All that being said, I just am not seeing a huge outcry or a whole lot of excitement for a 2nd edition of Pathfinder from more than a few dozen folks on these forums.

Well, first of all, Paizo isn't trying to compete directly with WOTC, and since the two games fill two niches in the F20 space, this is not a problem. Paizo doesn't exist just to provide a haven for disenchanted WOTC fans.

Yes, there have been a ton of books published for PF, and there are fans who state vehemently that they don't want a new edition, but this is common with every F20 edition change. I remember when DnD Next was announced. "Not another edition, we just got 4e!" And yet...

EN World is predominately a DnD site, so interest in PF2 will be somewhat muted. Online elsewhere, there seems to be a lot of interest.

Having said all this, bringing out new editions always carries risk. PF has been around for 10 years, and is certainly in need of an overhaul. Paizo probably has been monitoring things for the last few years, in order to time things just right. They have proven that they have good business sense, and know what they are doing in the industry. Paizo is not immediately dumping PF1, either. If things go badly, they'll probably be able to go back, like Coca-Cola. It's been my experience that players' love of the new and shiny usually outweigh the reluctance to upgrade to new editions. We'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.
 

Zarithar

Adventurer
It's been my experience that players' love of the new and shiny usually outweigh the reluctance to upgrade to new editions. We'll have to wait and see how it all pans out.

You are right of course. The only argument I have with any of what you said is the implication that Pathfinder is not D&D. I've often referred to it (and seen others do the same) as D&D 3.75. Not a bad thing. Paizo took an iteration of D&D that many people loved and improved upon it. It certainly took me away from 4th edition (which I disliked). In any case, I hope I am wrong and that we see PF2.0 thrive right alongside D&D 5e.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
So this is just my opinion, and probably going to irritate some...
On the contrary, I think a lot of folks are of the same opinion. This is definitely a big risk for Paizo.

but here goes: When Pathfinder came out it was met with near universal praise. There was a large amount of discontent with 4e D&D, and Pathfinder provided an alternative to that (in spades).
Fast forward to 2018. D&D 5e is well-loved by much of the player base and continues to sell exceedingly well. D&D is arguably more popular now than it ever has been. There are a couple of things going against PF 2nd edition in my mind.

1. There have been an almost literal ton of books released for Pathfinder. People who were loyal to that edition have invested hundreds of dollars on those books. Many PF devotees will stick with PF 1.0

2. There is no huge outcry against 5th edition D&D as there was with 4th edition.

I am just not seeing a huge demand for this. I certainly wish Paizo well. I've purchased a number of PF products and Starfinder as well. Even though PF is no longer my fantasy RPG of choice, I continue to use their excellent adventure paths, which are easy enough to convert to 5e D&D. All that being said, I just am not seeing a huge outcry or a whole lot of excitement for a 2nd edition of Pathfinder from more than a few dozen folks on these forums.
The thing is, 5e’s popularity is exactly why this move is necessary. Paizo built their brand on discontent with 4th Edition. Now that 4e is gone and 5e has won back a huge portion of the folks who left D&D for Pathfinder, the Pathfinder playerbase is dwindling. A new edition is definitely going to be a hard sell for the really hardcore PF1 fans, but some portion of them will adopt the new rules, and the hope is that a change up will bring in more fans than it loses. And there definitely is an audience for folks who aren’t happy with 5e, even if they aren’t as numerous or vocal as those who were unhappy with 4e. Ironically, I think a lot of the people PF2 is likely to scoop up is us 4e fans. Many of us find PF1 too clunky and bloated, but 5e too shallow and boring. A cleaned up and revised version of Pathfinder may be just what the doctor ordered. All the delicious crunch PF1 offers, with a lot of the stale cruft of 3e shaved off? Sign me up!
 

Shasarak

Banned
Banned
I just am not seeing a huge outcry or a whole lot of excitement for a 2nd edition of Pathfinder from more than a few dozen folks on these forums.

There is still four months to go before we actually see the rules and then another year after that before we get PF2. So far I have seen some good ideas and some terribad ideas so personally I will be waiting to see before getting too excited.
 

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