Zardnaar
Legend
It's been a while since I bought mine I think it was $10. Most of my Paizo purchases were PDF own 6 dead tree PF books. Played early PF1 but when it became obvious they were spamming splat we went back to 2E.
Pathfinder 2E Pathfinder 2E or Pathfinder 1E?
- Thread starter Erekose
- Start date
It's been a while since I bought mine I think it was $10. Most of my Paizo purchases were PDF own 6 dead tree PF books. Played early PF1 but when it became obvious they were spamming splat we went back to 2E.
JeffB
Legend
I tried to get through the playtest rulebook. At least enough to create a few characters and run a basic game, and I couldn't do it. I feel bad for anyone who actually paid for those in print unless they are a collector.
I think some of the PF Unchained ideas they designed into PF2e work out better in their original 1EPF format and rule set. Unless 2E comes out as drastically improved from the playtest, I'll continue to scratch my occasional PF itch with the Beginner Box, PFSRD, and Unchained.
I think some of the PF Unchained ideas they designed into PF2e work out better in their original 1EPF format and rule set. Unless 2E comes out as drastically improved from the playtest, I'll continue to scratch my occasional PF itch with the Beginner Box, PFSRD, and Unchained.
Aldarc
Legend
Loaded (begged) question much?
It reads to me like a rhetorical question, but if CapnZapp really wants an answer then you're correct.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
A game that would be recognizable as Dungeons & Dragons game (just like Pathfinder) but actually adds value to the hordes of 5E gamers, without devolving back into the kind of crap 5E has already fixed once and for all.
What does 5E lack?
# Player-side options. That is more detailed build choices, and using +1 and +2 bonuses instead of just advantage. Lots of 5E gamers miss the time when each level-up meant a myriad of intricate choices
# Magic item economy. Now that WotC is going the opposite route with Xanathar "treasure points" which essentially remove gold pieces from the game, there is real opportunity for a big trusted publisher like Paizo to build a proper magic item creation and pricing framework (building on the d20/PF experience).
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See, the problem is that we don't all agree on what the "crap" that 5e fixed is. I think that the character creation minigame in pathfinder is waaaaay out of hand. And a robust magical item economy leads to people customizing their magical item "kit", which becomes another layer of character creation. System mastery can result in an enormous variance in character power, and people are more into the character creation than actually playing the game.
CapnZapp
Legend
You don't sound much like a Pathfinder fan... Actually, 5E sounds like the perfect game for you! [emoji846]
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
I run a 5e game and I'm in a pathfinder game. I wish that the pathfinder game was 5e too but alas... ah well, I have a very good DM running a great module, so it's ok!
Aldarc
Legend
Paizo is probably using the same goalposts that spurred their initial development of Pathfinder: the survival of Paizo as a company. Pathfinder was intended as a stopgap measure to procure their company's survival in the absence of Dragon & Dungeon magazines. The success of Pathfinder was somewhat unexpected for them. I don't think that they are under any delusions about replicating the success of Pathfinder 1 because the market environment has changed.
I will take a more concerted effort to address your ranting with greater seriousness than you had in composing it. I know that you like to supply your own answers to your own questions that you have before even asking them, but just because Pathfinder 2 does not seem to be ticking off your boxes does not mean that it's not meeting the grade for others. I think that it's fairly clear that you want Pathfinder 2 to be something that it's not or what it even aims to be, an opinion which you betray in the bold. You want someone to make 5e Advanced. You have made that clear elsewhere. (insert links to many of the posts where you complain about wanting more player options and customization for 5e here
) And now you are pitching a conniption fit because Paizo is not dedicating its company resources for that purpose. You have some entitlement issues you need to take care of. If you want an upgrade path to 5e, then it's not Paizo's job as a company to do the work for you. First, your final sentence ignores an obvious point. Paizo would be nothing without D&D and they almost were nothing when they lost it. Hence, why they developed Pathfinder in the first place. I don't think that Paizo wants their company placed into that sort of dependent situation again.
Second, "It's Pathfinder" will be a good enough answer for some. For you? Obiviously not. For others? Yes, because Paizo has built their brand and they have created their own quality adventure paths and setting materials. I believe that for some, the major draw of Pathfinder 2 will be similar to that of Pathfinder 1: it is built on the d20 3e chassis so there is familiarity in the basics. I am aware that D&D 5E is also built on the same chassis, but so was 4E and a variety of other different games (e.g., Arcana Evolved, 13th Age, Mutants & Masterminds, True20, Dungeon Crawl Classics, Castles & Crusaders, etc.). These games, however, unquestionably have different feels and tones, strengths and weaknesses, as well as mechanics. IMHO, 5E caters to a different sort of fantasy tone than both 3E and 4E, with its self-professed bounded accuracy being fairly telling in that regard. So even within the broader aesthetic of D&D fantasy, I believe that there is room for the sort of high epic fantasy to which Pathfinder 2 aspires.
Pathfinder 2 is definitely novel in comparison to Pathfinder 1, but I would not say that it is "unrecognizably different" because there are too many places where it is obviously "recognizably similar" in its design to Pathfinder 1 and approach to D&D-esque fantasy. If you have played Pathfinder beyond its initial offering, you can see the conceptual history for its developments. Pathfinder 2 - much like with 4e and 5e before it, though in different ways - will seek to address their own issues with their perceived flaws of the 3e d20 system. [MENTION=6776259]Haffrung[/MENTION] has already provided an intial list of some key selling points for some people.
Ancalagon
Dusty Dragon
Erm... are you claiming that 5e is not suitable for high epic fantasy because of bounded accuracy?
There are many valid criticisms that a pathfinder fan could make to explain why 5e doesn't work for them, but I don't think that this is one.
Kurviak
Explorer
I think is a matter of what Aldarc means by "high epic fantasy". If we assume that the premise "hi level entities should be capable of control large quantities of low level entities" to be true for "high epic fantasy" then 5E is not capable of doing that but 3.x/PF1/PF2 are.
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