Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Advanced Player's Guide Preview

[redboxrazor]

No one does because it's a level 2 spell, not level 1. I would say a lot of people wouldn't take it, especially sorcerers. If you're a 4th level sorcerer will you really pick a spell that gives a few temp hit points as your only 2nd level spell or a spell that lets you do something cool or does a lot of damage? I'd personally go with invisibility, mirror image, scorching ray, or glitterdust over false life. If I'd get two spells, one of them might be false life, but it's not a certainty.

Pardon me on mixing up spell levels. That's embarrassing considering I'm playing a wizard in a campaign right now that casts False Life regularly.

Scorching Ray is usually my Lv. 2 sorcerer spell of choice, but in any Case, a False Life and 19 HP is mighty nice. I can see a lot of reasons to mix up the ratio of Spells to HP to Skill points in several builds.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

level 2 spells

The thing is, there are a LOT of really good level 2 spells, and one of the significant limitations of the sorcerer is that he normally can't even get all of the top tier ones.

Glitterdust
Scorching Ray
False Life
Mirror Image
Web
Invisibility

By level 8, a Sorcerer will know 3 or 4 of these, depending on his bloodline. a Human sorcerer will be able to know them all. That's a change big enough to essentially dictate choosing Human as a race.

There are a bunch of other great 2nd level spells too:
Resist Energy
Detect Thoughts
See Invisibility
Knock
Darkvision

I keep hearing about how low level spells lose their usefulness at higher levels. Which of these spells stop being useful?

Now, I have come around to the idea that it's OK for the Sorcerer to have more spells known; the class is already powerful but the wizard even more so. But I can't really get behind the idea that Human sorcerers should have 50% more spells known than other sorcerers. I like a game where most PCs are human, but I also feel that creatures with a fey connection like elves, gnomes, etc thematically fit as sorcerers and they're going to have to get something really really good to remain competitive now.

Ken

 

[billd91]

Now, I have come around to the idea that it's OK for the Sorcerer to have more spells known; the class is already powerful but the wizard even more so. But I can't really get behind the idea that Human sorcerers should have 50% more spells known than other sorcerers. I like a game where most PCs are human, but I also feel that creatures with a fey connection like elves, gnomes, etc thematically fit as sorcerers and they're going to have to get something really really good to remain competitive now.

For one thing, you're not getting the whole story. This was just a sample of a couple of things. We don't know what other race and class combos will get for their favored class bonus.

For another thing, Paizo has alluded that there are feats that may enable any sorcerer to pick up a bunch of extra spells (not just one as in the 3.5 feat). So it's not like humans are the only ones with options here.

 

[pawsplay]

For one thing, you're not getting the whole story. This was just a sample of a couple of things. We don't know what other race and class combos will get for their favored class bonus.

For another thing, Paizo has alluded that there are feats that may enable any sorcerer to pick up a bunch of extra spells (not just one as in the 3.5 feat). So it's not like humans are the only ones with options here.

True. But it does make me less sure if the APG is something I want to pick up. The human sorcerer favored class ability is very, very strong. I don't want the APG upgrading the power level too much.

 

[Haffrung Helleyes]

parts of the story

That may or may not be the case.

But, Paizo releases this stuff early to get feedback. If there's one element in a book that looks overpowered, but isn't because of another, it would make a whole lot of sense for them to release both parts at the same time, so that the feedback they get will be useful.

And it's been said that only humans get a substitution feature for every class. So it isn't at all clear that, for instance, that there will be an elven sorcerer class bonus.

Ken

For one thing, you're not getting the whole story. This was just a sample of a couple of things. We don't know what other race and class combos will get for their favored class bonus.

For another thing, Paizo has alluded that there are feats that may enable any sorcerer to pick up a bunch of extra spells (not just one as in the 3.5 feat). So it's not like humans are the only ones with options here.

 

[EroGaki]

I'm actually really happy that humans seem (so far anyway) to be getting the best option; one of things that bugged me about the alternative class features in many of the 3E books was that all the races got interesting options, while human got nothing. It's nice to see humans getting some love.

 

[Votan]

The thing is, there are a LOT of really good level 2 spells, and one of the significant limitations of the sorcerer is that he normally can't even get all of the top tier ones.

Glitterdust
Scorching Ray
False Life
Mirror Image
Web
Invisibility

By level 8, a Sorcerer will know 3 or 4 of these, depending on his bloodline. a Human sorcerer will be able to know them all. That's a change big enough to essentially dictate choosing Human as a race.

There are a bunch of other great 2nd level spells too:
Resist Energy
Detect Thoughts
See Invisibility
Knock
Darkvision

I keep hearing about how low level spells lose their usefulness at higher levels. Which of these spells stop being useful?

True Seeing eventually trumps see invisible. Energy resistance improves and greater invisibility trumps invisibility (which is why I tend to not to insert it as a second level sorcerer spell unless I want to retrain it). Disintegrate trumps knock.

But the point is well taken and there are other levels (4th comes to mind) where getting all of the good spells is impossible.

 

[BryonD]

True Seeing eventually trumps see invisible. Energy resistance improves and greater invisibility trumps invisibility (which is why I tend to not to insert it as a second level sorcerer spell unless I want to retrain it). Disintegrate trumps knock.

But the point is well taken and there are other levels (4th comes to mind) where getting all of the good spells is impossible.

But having an option that gets the job done and doesn't require overkill with a higher level slot is still a very good benefit.
And, remember, if you are casting True Seeing then you also have 3rd, 4th, and 5th level bonus spells known in addition to having a back pocket See Invisible.


Also, just to be picky, Impr Invis does not trump Invisibility. They are really very different spells. Invis is the moderate duration stealth / recon spell. Improved Invis is the short duration combat spell.

 

[Herobizkit]

... and you can cast lower level spells as higher ones for a better DC.

 

[Alzrius]

... and you can cast lower level spells as higher ones for a better DC.

Only with Heighten Spell, otherwise the DC remains the same.