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Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Alpha "crunch" discussion
- Thread starter brehobit
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Desdichado
Hero
I haven't looked at the rules in detail yet, but what I did see was a very noticable power bump. To me, that's not fixing a problem, that's causing a problem. I know some people complained about the frailty of low level characters, but I wasn't one of them, and this seems like it would just throw the CR system out of whack and make a serious hash out of attempts to convert non-standard races in even somewhat balanced. In other words, it's a fairly significant blow to backwards compatability, which defeats the purpose, IMO.
Also, one of the 4e-isms that I hoped they would do something with was the idea that race did something for you other than give you a few benefits at 1st level and then gradually fade into the background.
Also, one of the 4e-isms that I hoped they would do something with was the idea that race did something for you other than give you a few benefits at 1st level and then gradually fade into the background.
Desdichado
Hero
How about "Not Awesome. Not even a little bit awesome."Klaus said:
Gray Mouser is better described as a rogue who multiclassed a bit, or uses magical devices or something. One of my major complaints with 3.5 already was the fact that almost every single class was magical already. Really; only the rogue, fighter and barbarian work if you're looking to convert D&D into a low magic variant.
I understand; high fantasy and all that. But fix multiclassing if you want the ability of everyone to have a few spells, don't take the last few classes that don't have magical abilities or a spell progression and give it to them.
Hobo said:
I agree. I hope they dial that back during the playtests.
To address the perceived frailty of 1st-level characters, I would simply offer three ways to start characters:
"Challenging" -- start at 1st level with max hit points, same as now.
"Standard" -- start at 3rd level with some way of randomly rolling hit points, perhaps
"Easy Mode" -- start at 3rd level with max hit points and a bonus feat, or something
This should reduce the need to add more bonus stats, feats, etc. to make 1st-level characters "less fun."
I think that Paizo hit on a great idea with the three suggested XP progression charts, and should offer that kind of customizability in other areas, including this one.
Desdichado
Hero
Yeah, I've already made 3rd level my default start-up level. I do like playing 1st level, though. I think the tension of encountering even a single orc or goblin, knowing that he could take out one of the party members is fun.
Again, though---that's what levels are for. Bumping up the power level for everyone reduces backwards compatibility significantly. What if I'm using some alternate races in my game and now they aren't compatible with Pathfinder races, for instance? For me, at least, that's a much bigger concern than "OH NOEZ, my 1st level character might DIE!"
Again, though---that's what levels are for. Bumping up the power level for everyone reduces backwards compatibility significantly. What if I'm using some alternate races in my game and now they aren't compatible with Pathfinder races, for instance? For me, at least, that's a much bigger concern than "OH NOEZ, my 1st level character might DIE!"
Twowolves said:
So are combat maneuvers though.....they give the fighter something to do. If Paizo uses something based on or similar to the ideas in the Book of Nine Swords, that would likely do it, and SR would not be needed as much to balance out the mage.
I still like the idea of some kind of spell resistance though.....it allows you to have some creatures that you can't just blast with your best spell, and watch the encounter get beaten in the first round.
Always love when you spend an hour statting a BBEG, and he's reduced to jelly in one round due to lucky rolls
Banshee
Arnwyn said:
I understand what you're saying.....but personally I'm not *against* the idea of buying a 3.75. WotC may lose me because they've failed to convince me so far that 4E is enough of an improvement. It appears to do several things I don't like, and if that's the case, if I've got to rewrite significant components right at the beginning, then there's not much sense buying it.
If Paizo is going to make a 3.75, I want to see what the proposed changes are.....maybe I'll dislike them just as much....or maybe they'll be more in line with what I think should have been done in the first place.
I have to say....despite talk about the difficulty of 3.5 in running encounters, I have found that the most significant change I've seen was suggested by one of my players a few weeks ago. He bought me a bunch of Cue Cards, and I write down the important PC and Opponent details on each one.....hp, ac, special conditions, listen/spot/search checks, etc. Plus anything like magic effects they might not be aware of, etc. When there's an encounter, I roll initiative, write the result on each card, and then just stack the cards in order. As the combat goes, sort through the cards, dropping each to the back as each character/monster takes their action. I've only done that for the last few weeks, but encounters take like 30% of the time now. It's made a massive difference in my game.
Banshee
Hobo said:
Actually, this does not bother me at all. I don't think race should play a big deal after the game starts beyond racial prestige classes. Among my disappointment that I recall (besides the skill system) were
1. having things like Dwarven greed and non-biological elements included in the race. I am still waiting for some third party to strip out the non-biological elements of the races and balance them on non-cultural elements and then provide cultural/background packages (e.g. forest dweller, hill dweller, arctic dweller, noble, nomad, urban-professional, urban-street) that can be added on to a race like a template. This would allow DMs easy rulings for a character of one race raised by another and if, done with some thought out system, provides DMs a basis for creating their own cultures.
2. having armor and weapons built into the classes as automatic proficiencies. One thing that I was hoping with 4e was that it would have opened up the classes for more customization by removing automatic armor and weapon proficiencies and giving a first level character additional bonus feats to spend from a class list of bonus feats. Armor and Weapon Proficiencies would be bonus feats that can be chosen from this list. This makes the characters initial choices of class and feats more imporant as it prevents someone from multiclassing later into a martial class and gaining proficiency in all martial weapons and multiple armor types.
