Pathfinder OGL/3.5 RPG system from Paizo

[jaerdaph]

Paizo needs to look at Apple's marketing to get some ideas for going up against a giant:

 

[blargney the second]

*lmao* Nice one, jaerdaph!

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

LOL too funny jaerdaph

 

[Druchii]

Good Job Piazo I will be buying books from ya, I already do.

Have not read all the pages here, so please correct me if I'm wrong and someone mentioned this already,
What we have here is a perfect opportunity for all current producers of 3.5 to say"no" to wizards and do what Piazo is doing, say "no" to 4th. If they all stuck together then 4th would not even come out, but it will not happen.

 

[Demmero]

What we have here is a perfect opportunity for all current producers of 3.5 to say"no" to wizards and do what Piazo is doing, say "no" to 4th. If they all stuck together then 4th would not even come out, but it will not happen.

Here's my take on the scenario you suggest (and I may be wrong as well):

If all the current 3.5 producers said No to 4E, 4E would still come. Wizards would ramp up production of adventures (and/or plug the Dungeon part of its D&D Insider program) to support the game. Depending upon how nicely the 3.5 producers said No to 4E, Wizards would either pull whatever GSL offer off the table or leave it there (assuming they ever get around to actually completing it, of course).

Meanwhile, the 3.5 producers would have to support themselves by creating new material for a system that's already been on the market for 8 years. IMO, there's not a whole lot of essential material left to be printed. Adventures are always handy, and maybe some world sourcebooks would still sell. But there's already a certain degree of rules bloat with the system; I'm not sure how much more can be added.

On top of that, Paizo's not strictly sticking with 3.5--they're working on a Pathfinder/3.75 version of the rules. Will all of the other 3.5 producers follow suit? Or will they choose to stick to the 3.5 RAW, further dividing the 3.5 market?

Lastly, Paizo hasn't said No to 4E, they've simply said Yes to Pathfinder for their current business model. They've left the door open to producing 4E material...once they've got a look at the GSL.

 

[tricky_bob]

The Advantage 3P has over 4.0 is that if you don't like the extra stat bonuses given to each Race, either don't use them or adjust your points buy system. If you don't like the skill max ranks idea, use skill points, etc. etc.

The point is, is that its Alpha... YOU get to try it out and have a say in its development. YOU get to pick and choose which bits you like and dislike and ALL of it is compatible with ALL your current books, adventures etc. even if it does require a little tweaking

Whereas 4.0 is ONLY a money spinning deal for WotC.

Anyone with a load of material for Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms or Eberron can still use everything they have with 3P. In 4.0 unless you live 70000 years [I'm looking at you, Elf!!] all the NPC that are, say, Human will be dead, useless, and the game world will be out of date too, and they'll want you to buy all that again as well!

3P is about you, its about me and its about us, yeah WotC, remember us? well you should do as you've already got a load of our money....*^$*ers!


4.0 sucks because it need to attract 11 year olds, it will be over simplified and all about emptying your wallet.

 

[Psion]

Whereas 4.0 is ONLY a money spinning deal for WotC.

Every product WotC produced is a money spinning deal for Wizards.

Same goes for Paizo, really. Neither is a vanity press.

And I'm sure designers for both love their products and are proud of their work.

So just be happy that we live in the age where such choice is possible. No reason to get angry and hurl negative images about business practices that aren't sinister in any way.

EDIT: Okay, DDI is a little sinister. But still...

 

[Piratecat]

Whereas 4.0 is ONLY a money spinning deal for WotC...

3P is about you, its about me and its about us, yeah WotC, remember us? well you should do as you've already got a load of our money....*^$*ers!

4.0 sucks because it need to attract 11 year olds, it will be over simplified and all about emptying your wallet.

Congratulations! You've just exactly repeated the statements that people made eight and nine years ago about 2nd edition and 3e. Exactly, including the profanity, insulting comment about 11 year olds, obvious comment about a corporation needing to actually earn a profit, and unqualified statement about the new game being over-simplified. The only thing you're missing is a rant about how it's dumbing down the game to have armor class count up instead of down.

Incidentally, we have 2,575 members who were 11 or younger when 3e was launched. Do you think it's bad for the industry and the game that they're playing? Do you think it's a bad idea to recruit younger players?

I think people fall into this trap that says "just because the game isn't the same as what I'm playing right now, it's evil-bad-fun and should have never have been made." Whether I love 4e or hate it, I have a lot of trouble buying into that line of thought. I think it's a fine thing that Paizo is helping offer people an alternative to 4e, but that doesn't make their game perfect, either.

 

[tricky_bob]

Congratulations! You've just exactly repeated the statements that people made eight and nine years ago about 2nd edition and 3e.

I think people fall into this trap that says "just because the game isn't the same as what I'm playing right now, it's evil-bad-fun and should have never have been made." Whether I love 4e or hate it, I have a lot of trouble buying into that line of thought. I think it's a fine thing that Paizo is helping offer people an alternative to 4e, but that doesn't make their game perfect, either.

Maybe, but those editions had major flaws and the number of players were far fewer than now and I'm assuming you are relating this to your post bag because the internet as today didn't exist and the average player didn't get any say in it or an opportunity to voice an opinion.

I don't remember too many threads/posts asking or calling for 4.0 before we all found out about it, do you?

I see 3.5 as a solid structure with a few flaws. Most of those flaws can be eliminated buy excluding certain books, by house ruling and sensible DM-ing. But on the whole, solid.

3P gives us all a way of continuing to use our $£$£$ worth of books with some fresh revised options. 4.0 does not.

Lets not be fooled into thinking 4.0 is needed, or on the whole wanted. Those of you who are pro 4.0, good luck and don't forget your wallet will be empty.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Those of you who are pro 4.0, good luck and don't forget your wallet will be empty.

If you're not going to be spending money, then nobody gives a flying what your opinions are as a consumer.

Not Paizo, not WoTC.

Be prepared to open your wallet for somebody, or go grumble somewhere else.