Pathfinder on the bookstore shelves? Forked Thread: The 3.5 renaissance!

[ki11erDM]

I wasn't on enworld, but I was on WotC back then...do you rember the claims that 3e would die by the next year and someone would buy D&D back and reprint 2e...those were fun...


edit: and I still hear people at cons (Gen con last year) claim 3e is to video gamey...and that WotC killed D&D with 3e...so about the same

Yea, the irrational hatred for TSR or WotC for 'ruining' the game has been around for a long long time. I assume it started after EGG was no longer in charge but I was not really cognoscente of gaming culture at that time.

 

[ki11erDM]

Not every player is capable of buying books off the internet; some don't have credit/debit cards or internet capacity (or don't feel comfortable using said cards on said internet...)

And that's not getting into discounts, promos, gift-cards, employee discounts, etc which draw people into a B&M store that you can't find off Paizo.

Well, I've bought most of my Paizo products either at my FLGS, or ordered them from Amazon.com. Even with the higher (International) shipping costs, I've got some of the stuff for half the price it would have cost me here (in euros). As for PDFs, I don't really need them...

International buyers, gift card sells, and people without internet access are not what I would base a business decision on.

I know I would not stock anything after the guild book and the first part of the AP. Once a DM has those and see that you can easily get the items for less with more features the vast majority of people are going to go that route. I just don’t see it as a wise business decision on B&N part (or a FLAG) to carry much of it (some, yes). But it is not like the buyers at B&N even know that. All they know are spins and size and costs, so what I would do has nothing to do what they would do.

None of that is a Knock on Piazo or Pathfinder… I bought everything they did up until they announced they would not be supporting the addition of D&D I play. They have great writing and have done a great job.

 

[A Powerful Necromanc]

You are probably in a small minority, then, based on sales and market share.

Yes, but then again the vast majority of consumers of any product could be generously described as mindless.

Ever since I started DMing, I strove to add a level of... difficulty, forcing my players to outdo themselves in the level of teamwork they display. I just don't think I can do that anymore in fourth.

1HP goblins is way too far gone. Halflings being sea-faring barge traders? Gnomes no longer a base race, same with half-orcs? Laaaaaame.

Plus it has, seriously, been dumbed down way, way, too far.

 

[smug]

Now, it would be interesting to hear whether they do plan to target bookstores or not when they release.

To what extent do they really target bookstores anyhow? I always assumed that it had more to do with the bookstores and amazon asking distributors to get it (as don't amazon use a standard book trade distributor?) than a small publishing house like Paizo being able to push things from the other end.

 

[catsclaw227]

Yes, but then again the vast majority of consumers of any product could be generously described as mindless.

I take it then, you've never bought anything before in your life? Or are you also mindless? Or are you simply stating that you are superior to the vast majority, because you aren't mindless?

Ever since I started DMing, I strove to add a level of... difficulty, forcing my players to outdo themselves in the level of teamwork they display. I just don't think I can do that anymore in fourth.

1HP goblins is way too far gone. Halflings being sea-faring barge traders? Gnomes no longer a base race, same with half-orcs? Laaaaaame.

Plus it has, seriously, been dumbed down way, way, too far.

Believe me, I've been DMing D&D for a long time. It's very possible to challenge players and their PCs in 4e.

In one week, Gnomes are officially a base race and so are half-orcs. So.... that argument doesn't hold anymore.

The dumbing down of a campaign has far more to do with the DM than with the ruleset.

 

[A Powerful Necromanc]

You should never HAVE to create house rules, or change the base rules in any way to introduce difficulty into the campaign. 1HP goblins, man. Seriously. Not only will they leave their magical items in the poorly locked treasure chest in the middle of their camp, but have 1 freaking HP? The only goblins I've seen that are less of a threat are the ones in The Sunless Citadel which, for whatever reason, decide to deal nonlethal damage as opposed to killing the people who broke into their homes flat-out.

 

[Keefe the Thief]

I don't even consider 4th edition D&D anymore. Far as I'm concerned, Pathfinder is close to taking up that mantle of greatness.

I really wish we could get through a Pathfinder-appreciation-thread without this.
Lets get this straight: denying 4e the status as D&D, ranting about the minion system, all this will not help Pathfinder to be successful. You cannot build a house out of hate, and the Paizo guys certainly don´t try to do so.
So please, lets return the discussion to bookstores.

 

[catsclaw227]

You should never HAVE to create house rules, or change the base rules in any way to introduce difficulty into the campaign. 1HP goblins, man. Seriously. Not only will they leave their magical items in the poorly locked treasure chest in the middle of their camp, but have 1 freaking HP? The only goblins I've seen that are less of a threat are the ones in The Sunless Citadel which, for whatever reason, decide to deal nonlethal damage as opposed to killing the people who broke into their homes flat-out.

The goblin doesn't have 1 HP. It is a minion that has 1HP.

Minions are designed to serve as shock troops and cannon fodder for other monsters (standard, elite, or solo). Four minions are considered to be about the same as a standard monster of their level. Minions are designed to help fill out an encounter, but they go down quickly. A minion is destroyed when it takes any amount of damage. Damage from an attack or from a source that doesn’t require an attack roll (such as the paladin’s divine challenge or the fighter’s cleave) also destroys a minion. However, if a minion is missed by an attack that normally deals damage on a miss, it takes no damage.

There are 4th level goblins that have 110hp and there are also 1hp devils that are 21st level!

A person either understands and likes the minion idea, understands and dislikes the minion idea, or just don't understand the minion idea.

These have nothing to do with difficulty. Difficulty is not brought about by house rules either. Believe me.... I challenge my players and provide fun and
interesting encounters without any house rules.

Ever since I started DMing, I strove to add a level of... difficulty, forcing my players to outdo themselves in the level of teamwork they display. I just don't think I can do that anymore in fourth.

IMC, not every encounter is supposed to be difficult and not every encounter requires that the PCs or the players "outdo" themselves with their tactics. It's about having fun and and the group effort to provide a compelling D&D experience for DM and player alike.

 

[DaveMage]

I really wish we could get through a Pathfinder-appreciation-thread without this.
Lets get this straight: denying 4e the status as D&D, ranting about the minion system, all this will not help Pathfinder to be successful. You cannot build a house out of hate, and the Paizo guys certainly don´t try to do so.
So please, lets return the discussion to bookstores.

Ditto!

4E vs. 3E has been covered elsewhere. Some prefer one over the other. Some play both. Both are still supported. YAY!!!!!!

 

[ProfessorPain]

I really wish we could get through a Pathfinder-appreciation-thread without this.
Lets get this straight: denying 4e the status as D&D, ranting about the minion system, all this will not help Pathfinder to be successful. You cannot build a house out of hate, and the Paizo guys certainly don´t try to do so.
So please, lets return the discussion to bookstores.

I once built a house out of hate; with nails of spite, wood of scorn and bile-filled insulation. The forced hot air was fueled by jealousy, and the water table flooded the basement with vitriol. Inside all was badwrongfun! No edition was safe from out scorn!