Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder outselling D&D

[Jhaelen]

I only have this to say: Pathfinder is available in German, 4e isn't.

 

[Wik]

Hm. To be honest, I don't have any stake in this discussion, despite my previous snarky comment. I have given up on 4e after years of trying to get into it - the only time I really enjoyed the game were either in situations where die rolls were not a factor (ie, "it could happen in any system" moments) or where I took something WotC developed and fixed it so it was fun again (I'm looking at you, Sceptre Tower of Spellgard!)

As for Pathfinder/3e, while it's going to be my new system, it needed quite a few tweaks before I'd get near it again.

I will share two stories, though.

First was when I got my Character Builder subscription. I had a computer problem that prevented me from accessing the Dragon and Dungeon magazines. I could get my Character Builder stuff, but had no access to the PDFs.

I called the available numbers, and got no reply. I sent off three different emails to EACH of the three different email addresses that might deal with such a problem. And got no reply. At all. For about two weeks, I could not access products I had paid to access, and got NO customer service replies. I almost cancelled my account, but wound up getting my tech-savvy brother to fix the problem with some computer voodoo.

When Paizo first started releasing Rise of the Runelords, I'd get the issues mailed directly to my door. I got them all, except for issue #3. Basically, it got lost at the post office. I emailed Paizo, and got a reply within two or three days that said "well, we sent it, and it went to the post office." the post office never said one way or another what had happened to it, but Paizo did send a second copy, which showed up at my door. Even though, for all they knew, I was lying and trying for a second copy.

So, in terms of pure customer support, Paizo wins, hands down.

Funny story I just remembered: when I cancelled my sub to Pathfinder (I had switched to 4e and had basically stopped even reading the AP stuff that was coming in, so figured why not save some money), I found I kept getting issues delivered to me. I was not being charged for them... but the issues kept showing up. This happened something like four or five times before I felt guilty and sent them an email alerting them to what was going on. But yeah, that's how much Paizo wants to please their customer - they'll send you the stuff for free!

 

[Pentius]

-Stuff about PF fans in store behavior-

This reminds me of a time I was gaming in-store(a situation that never seems to really go well for me). We had just set down to start Encounters, when a young lad came up(probably19-20yrs old). He looked at our various materials, and we told him we were about to start Encounters and asked if he wanted in. He rolled his eyes dramatically and said something along the lines of "Oh, you're playing 4e. It's a shame you're not playing Pathfinder, it's just so much better."

It didn't really amount to anything after that. We all looked at each other, as if to verify that this had indeed happened, and the guy got bored and went off.

 

[S'mon]

Pathfinder certainly seems to have enthusiastic fans. In my limited experience of the WoTC boards, there is also a lot of vitriol there -but vitriol against WoTC! I know which kind of fans I'd rather have, if I were a games publisher.

 

[Morrus]

This reminds me of a time I was gaming in-store(a situation that never seems to really go well for me). We had just set down to start Encounters, when a young lad came up(probably19-20yrs old). He looked at our various materials, and we told him we were about to start Encounters and asked if he wanted in. He rolled his eyes dramatically and said something along the lines of "Oh, you're playing 4e. It's a shame you're not playing Pathfinder, it's just so much better."

It didn't really amount to anything after that. We all looked at each other, as if to verify that this had indeed happened, and the guy got bored and went off.

You should have responded with some disparaging remark about his choice of clothing brands or the like.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

I have to say, as a Pathfinder fan, that I have seen similar behavior, but it wasn't a Pathfinder player doing it.

It wasn't a 4e player either, for that matter - it was a GURPS fanatic. The number one reason I have no interest in GURPS is one local group of fans. Behavior like that is bad for any game.

That said, there are plenty of vocal 4e fans who begin frothing at the mention of 3e/3.5/3.P. The thing to do is ignore them, as is the thing to do with frothing Pathfinder, GURPS, or RoleMaster players....

The Auld Grump

 

[Steel_Wind]

Lisa got her data from distributors and my guess is they have pretty solid data on their own product sales

And Lisa's data is confirmed by anecdotal reports from retailers, too. Free RPG day offerings, where price is ignored, showed that both D&D and Pathfinder free products were snapped up over the offerings of other RPG products at a far faster rate.

But free Pathfinder products ran out faster than the free D&D products did.

Report is here: Click Here

As for the ICV2 numbers, they ranked the first Q 2011 sales with D&D given a slim lead, with D&D's market lead being attributed to the advantage D&D has by being featured in stores which sell only one rpg and D&D's higher prominence in the book trade.

Among sales in hobby games stores which offer both D&D and Pathfinder -- that would be the FLGS -- Pathfinder outsells D&D 4E.

Report is here: Click Here

 

[Raven Crowking]

Removed

 

[Bedrockgames]

Unless WotC is doing better in terms of direct market. When I was co-owner of Golden City Comics, WotC offered better terms than the distributor we used in Canada for D&D products.

Actually, the problem Hasbro has with Canadian distribution through Diamond Comics Distributors might be a major effect. Since Diamond cannot ship WotC products to Canada, and since other distributors are more expensive, the Canadian side of D&D's market share may be far more direct-from-the-source than through distribution.

That Lisa could be wrong (and I am also not saying that she is) is something that we should keep in mind.

RC

I agree there are plenty of possibilities here. Others have mentioned DDI. But i do think the liklihood is her information on distribution sales is accurate. By no means does this indicate pathfinder is number one across the board or that their current distribution sales are a permanent thinf. But it does mean, and other data people have supplied seems to support this, for the first time in a while D&D (the brand) isnt the automatic king. There is some healthy competition. I also think it is hard to dismiss the firing of bill slavicsek in this light.

 

[TirionAnthion]

Unless WotC is doing better in terms of direct market. When I was co-owner of Golden City Comics, WotC offered better terms than the distributor we used in Canada for D&D products.
RC

At my store we get all of our Pathfinder products through Alliance Games Distribution. However, we get all of our 4E products direct from WotC. The discount is better. Also we get product earlier through WotC due to the retailer incentive programs that they offer.

In the end, I am not sure how much it really matters. As a retailer I am glad for the business regardless of what game people are playing. As a gamer, I am glad that the hobby in general seems to be doing well, at least in my area.