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Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder (PFRPG) bloat (was Forked Thread: What exactly is OGL bloat?)
- Thread starter ggroy
- Start date
Well if it is printed by paizo can't really call it a 3pp product any more
Would Monte Cook's "Collected Book of Experimental Might" book be considered a 3pp product? (It was published by Paizo).
Sagawork_Studios
First Post
Having got back into D&D as a player during the D20 glut I saw some of the really good ideas péter out because of they lacked follow-up support in one way or another for their campaign setting/ruleset/adventures. One company in particular produced a fantastic setting, then a great series of splatbooks to support it, but only one adventure. This setting wasn't for everyone, but it did have a sizable following. It is my belief that if there was more adventure support for that campaign setting, be it from the company itself or from another licensed 3rd party, they could have had a longer-lasting hit on their hands.
In regards to a possible glut, I am not saying everyone is, but it would be an absolute shame if people were scared away because they were concerned about a possible glut. If there is a glut, at worst, I cannot forsee a greater effect other than people posting 'I told you so.' Even if every company that signed up for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game produced a ton of excellent stuff that not only augmented the game but added new and exciting dimensions to it, it is still the responsibility of the Game Table as a whole to decide what they wants to use and what not to. (It is also my opinion that a GM can never have enough adventures, but I also have a vested interest in that comment)
That said, I am a company of one man and who is prepared to accept that my adventures for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game may end up as a mere drop in a vast ocean of good products that emerged from my peers and from Paizo. But this is what drives me to try consistently harder. I want to make my adventures concise, memorable, and thereby, attractive to GMs.
By my quick count, fifty-four bodies have expressed interest in producing products using the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Some of which have already produced good OGL products. I am confident that we will see some good products from the NKOTB and the established guys. If anything, I would ask people to support the stuff they think it is good. If it is bad, be constructive in your criticism. Writers are funny like that; they live for the approval of others. Tell 'em their stuff is good, and they'll keep doing it. Tell 'em their stuff needs improvement and they'll work on it
In regards to a possible glut, I am not saying everyone is, but it would be an absolute shame if people were scared away because they were concerned about a possible glut. If there is a glut, at worst, I cannot forsee a greater effect other than people posting 'I told you so.' Even if every company that signed up for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game produced a ton of excellent stuff that not only augmented the game but added new and exciting dimensions to it, it is still the responsibility of the Game Table as a whole to decide what they wants to use and what not to. (It is also my opinion that a GM can never have enough adventures, but I also have a vested interest in that comment)
That said, I am a company of one man and who is prepared to accept that my adventures for the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game may end up as a mere drop in a vast ocean of good products that emerged from my peers and from Paizo. But this is what drives me to try consistently harder. I want to make my adventures concise, memorable, and thereby, attractive to GMs.
By my quick count, fifty-four bodies have expressed interest in producing products using the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. Some of which have already produced good OGL products. I am confident that we will see some good products from the NKOTB and the established guys. If anything, I would ask people to support the stuff they think it is good. If it is bad, be constructive in your criticism. Writers are funny like that; they live for the approval of others. Tell 'em their stuff is good, and they'll keep doing it. Tell 'em their stuff needs improvement and they'll work on it
gamerprinter
Mapper/Publisher
Hard bound eventually.
Although my initial adventure arc will definitely be PDF only to start, the setting book, at this time is intended for hard-bound printed version - though at this time, I don't completely understand the distribution channels, so that will be a whole different issue I'll need to learn and understand.
But a hard bound splat is my intention eventually - hopefully this year.
Right now my efforts beyond game development is to create a visually appealing product. So far about a third of the art is full color with influences from chinese painting, to anime, my beastiary currently consists of custom pencil illustrations by Mark Hyzer (one of the painters for MtG CCG - the creepier stuff.) Plus since I'm a pro fantasy cartographer the adventure and setting will be chock full of maps.
So I'm doing my best effort to make an appealing and professional product.
GP
PS: I'm creating an introductory adventure arc to start off with - a 3 part adventure. I also plan to start a larger campaign going from 1st to 20th level. Plus I'll probably create a 3 part follow up to the initial arc for players of that initial game to continue with. The setting book becomes a necessary expense to the system, but the goal is creating many adventures, not many hard-bound splats - just one in the plans for now.
Although my initial adventure arc will definitely be PDF only to start, the setting book, at this time is intended for hard-bound printed version - though at this time, I don't completely understand the distribution channels, so that will be a whole different issue I'll need to learn and understand.
But a hard bound splat is my intention eventually - hopefully this year.
Right now my efforts beyond game development is to create a visually appealing product. So far about a third of the art is full color with influences from chinese painting, to anime, my beastiary currently consists of custom pencil illustrations by Mark Hyzer (one of the painters for MtG CCG - the creepier stuff.) Plus since I'm a pro fantasy cartographer the adventure and setting will be chock full of maps.
So I'm doing my best effort to make an appealing and professional product.
GP
PS: I'm creating an introductory adventure arc to start off with - a 3 part adventure. I also plan to start a larger campaign going from 1st to 20th level. Plus I'll probably create a 3 part follow up to the initial arc for players of that initial game to continue with. The setting book becomes a necessary expense to the system, but the goal is creating many adventures, not many hard-bound splats - just one in the plans for now.
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This sounds AWESOME. Everyone at Paizo has been dying to get to some eastern-flavored content, but we strategically have to focus on more "core" stuff and haven't been able to get to it yet. Thanks to the Pathfinder Compatibility License and the OGL, people will be able to get awesome, somewhat niche products a LOT faster and a lot more often than if we were just publishing the game alone.
Bravo!
--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing
PS: I'll worry about "Pathfinder Bloat" when I see a trace of it. So far so good!
dm4hire
Explorer
One thing I like that I'm seeing so far with 3PP for Pathfinder is that they seem to be focusing on settings and such. That in my opinion is a good start and a better focus. It seems like the intention is to provide settings that people want instead of rules all though a good tactic would be to copy the strategy done for Arcanis. Create a world focused on the system then expand the mechanics by increasing mechanics related to that world, i.e. new classes and such.
One of the big down sides to 3e glut was the large number of 3PPs who tried to do variant classes and such, but kept it generic. The Arcanis approach gave the players a world and then said, "here's a a variant within that world." It's sort of the "Field of Dreams" approach to gaming, "if you build it, they will come."
That being said it would be nice to see Paizo launch a contest like Wotc did in order to find their next campaign setting. I'm wondering if that might be the theme of their next Superstar contest?
One of the big down sides to 3e glut was the large number of 3PPs who tried to do variant classes and such, but kept it generic. The Arcanis approach gave the players a world and then said, "here's a a variant within that world." It's sort of the "Field of Dreams" approach to gaming, "if you build it, they will come."
That being said it would be nice to see Paizo launch a contest like Wotc did in order to find their next campaign setting. I'm wondering if that might be the theme of their next Superstar contest?
It would be a shame if Pathfinder is undermined by a 3pp PFRPG bloat in 2010 or 2011 or 2012.
Though if the bloat is largely restricted to the PDF market, it may minimize the damage to distributors and retailers. The mediocre stuff largely stays online without ever making it into printed book form.
This time around for WotC, the 3pp 4E bloat may very well end up being confined to the PDF market too. This is considering Orcus' (Clark's) recent article about the difficulty of getting 3pp 4E books into the distribution and retail (FLGS) channels, notwithstanding Joseph Goodman's experiences. (Goodman appears to have put a lot of his own effort into reaching out to FLGS over the years, and deservedly earned his good reputation with distributors and FLGS).
Though if the bloat is largely restricted to the PDF market, it may minimize the damage to distributors and retailers. The mediocre stuff largely stays online without ever making it into printed book form.
This time around for WotC, the 3pp 4E bloat may very well end up being confined to the PDF market too. This is considering Orcus' (Clark's) recent article about the difficulty of getting 3pp 4E books into the distribution and retail (FLGS) channels, notwithstanding Joseph Goodman's experiences. (Goodman appears to have put a lot of his own effort into reaching out to FLGS over the years, and deservedly earned his good reputation with distributors and FLGS).
mach1.9pants
Hero
Mmmm maybe it is like that thing that is happening to my midriff?
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