Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Psionics (from Dreamscarred)

[ProfessorCirno]

My preference is to keep the soulknife resource management simple. On off powers at most. (Psychic strike and psionic focus).

Well, I can totally see that too. I guess when I look at soul knife, I see several base non-psionic classes it could be modeled after: ranger, rogue, and monk. Adding non-core, we get scout and swashbuckler.

The SLAs thingie was just me tossing ideas around

Personally, I'm of the opinion that psychic strike should be more sneak attack-esque - no more of the recharging, "I can only do it once per round and as such do less damage then an elderly hexblade" issue. It already progresses slower then SA.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Here's a thought:

Base a PC's PP (that sounds vaguely...illegal) entirely upon Con for all manifesting psionic classes (risky, I know, letting such a high-value stat double as a casting stat), but have all Manifesters have to deal with a fatigue mechanic, not with an ASF mechanic. Concentration may or may not apply, depending on the particular power.

After a certain % of a Manifester's PP have been expended, he has to make a Fort save each time he manifests a new power (DC based on the power's level) or become Fatigued. After the next % threshold, he becomes Exhausted on a failed Fort save. The third failed Fort save results in Unconscousness and the failure of all powers that require concentration or direction.

The Soulknife (and other non-Manifesting psionic classes) would still need PP for their abilities to be active, but wouldn't be subject to fatigue.

What this does:

1) It closely mirrors what happens to psions of the fiction that inspired their inclusion into RPGs. Most of them (that I've read about or seen in TV or film) become progressively more exhausted the more power they exert.

2) It explains why Manifesters aren't affected by armor.

3) It imposes a direct and immediate penalty on Manifesters who go Nova, but still allows them the option of doing so if they really, really feel it is necessary.

4) Because of this fatigue mechanic, it might make sense for all psi classes to have a few more skill points. By and large, they're going to want to be more resourceful than other supernaturalists, if for no other reason than they're not going to want to pass out on the floor in front of a bunch of Worgs.

5) The distinction between manifesting and non-manifesting psionic classes becomes more meaningful, and would even more closely resemble the distinction between traditional arcanists (the Wizard, the Sorc, etc.) and the Warlock.

6) It would also make meaningful the distinction between the non-Manifesting classes and Manifesting classes that are somehow able to mimic the abilities of the non-Manifesters.

IOW, if you did have a base class Soulknife, but also a mindblade power accessible by other classes, the Soulknife could keep his active all day long...but the PsyWar with a mindblade would, over time, feel his consciousness fade and fade and fade...

7) A Manifester's overall health would directly impact his manifesting ability- again, consistent with the underlying fiction. A spell or disease that affects Con, starvation, dehydration or any form of exposure- all of these things would make it more likely that a Manifester would fail one of those Fort saves. And if the other condition imposes a condition change in and of itself, the Manifester is likewise hampered.

 

[Angellis_ater]

One thing that surfaced on the DSP boards, in part born from the feedback you and others have been giving is the following:

"Well, one way to do it would be to let the Soulknife's Mindblade enhance itself, while the Mindblade Feats only give you "manifesting weapon options" so to speak. So a PsyWar can manifest a Mindblade, but regardless of level or number of feats, it must be enhanced "normally" via magic/psionic item creation feats?

Fact is, we could even make the two classes share the same "Mindblade" feats, only giving non-Soulknives access to a Mindblade via a "Form Mindblade" feat. Indeed, this might actually be a way to merge both concepts..."

 

[Arkhandus]

I think that the slow regeneration of power points would be confusing and difficult to keep up with. I think if you just put a lower cap on how many power points you can spend to augment powers or just reduce total power points, it would solve a lot of the "go nova, and rest" problem.

How so?

You would only regain power points during rest, similar to natural healing, just closer to the rate of nonlethal damage recovery. It wouldn't be something you'd deal with during encounters or anything, just when the PC has a few hours or so to rest and meditate.

It's quicker and simpler than calculating how much time, money, and XP the party's Wizard spends on item creation during downtime, or calculating how much the Rogue gets when selling off a bundle of treasure while he's in town between adventures. It's like 10 seconds total, of asking the DM how many hours your Psion/whatever has available to meditate before the party regroups or returns to action, and adding up a few single-digit numbers for that many hours of meditation, maybe involving one simple skill check or whatever for each hour of it.

If you reduce how many power points can be spent on stuff, then the manifesters just become weaker and their metapsionics/augmentations look like a waste of time compared to any spellcaster's options. Plus it does absolutely nothing to stop them from manifesting their highest-level power repeatedly in every encounter, rapidly burning through PP, then insisting that they need to rest until the next day after the 1st or 2nd encounter. That's nova-ing too.

If you reduce power points more than just a tad but keep the 1/day PP recovery, then psionic manifesters just become weak alternatives to the magic folks, only able to manifest a few powers each day of any worthwhile potency. They'd spend most of each adventuring day just standing around and complaining that they can't do anything.....because they'd have used up all their meager or moderate power points in the 1st and 2nd encounters, just like a nova-ing manifester in the 3.5 psionics rules. A small reduction in power points wouldn't have much impact on nova-ing but would just slightly reduce their endurance in general, whether they were conservative or not with their power points.

 

[Angellis_ater]

Our current idea for the ALTERNATE per encounter PP rule goes something as follows (details being worked on):

1. After resting, a Psion begins with access to a number of power points equal to their manifester level + their Intelligence modifier.
2. In an encounter, the Psion can make an Autohypnosis check as a full-round action that provokes Attacks of Opportunity to regain a measure of power (dependant on class level we think at this point, so at level 1-4 this would give the Psion 2 pp, 5-8 = 3 pp and so on).

What does this do? Well, first of all it removes the ability to Nova - and if the Psion burns through their PP by making augmented to the max attacks, they'll have to spend precious actions to regain a measure of power.

 

[pawsplay]

Maybe you could add a new concept, the active pool. It is much smaller than your total PP. As a full round action, you can move pp from your total pp to your active pool. Maybe expending your focus would allow you to do it as a swift action.

 

[Aus_Snow]

If it was a vote or whatever, mark me down for Soulknife as the *only* Mindblade user. . . oh, and with full BAB, while we're on this subject.

 

[Angellis_ater]

I'm sorry to say that we won't be "upgrading" the Soulknife. Changing the BAB not only breaks an easy backwards compatibility, but also redefines the role from skirmisher to front-liner. We want to emphasize the skirmisher part and perhaps leave the front-line concept to a Prestige Class.

Anyone else have any ideas, feelings about our suggested system for a per-encounter PP pool?

 

[Shazman]

Well, if you want to keep the BAB and hit die tied together like the other Pathfinder classes, you will have to decrease the hit dice or increase the BAB. This is because the 3.5 soulknife has d10 hit die and medium BAB progression. This is probably something that is often overlooked, because it is so odd to have that hit die/ BAB combination, so most people probably assume the class has d8 hit die.

 

[Angellis_ater]

We will most likely go with a D8 rather than increase his BAB, to emphasize the skirmisher part of the class more.