There better be a Bestiary 4. No monster line is ever complete, any TTRPG company should know that! They have more Divs, Asura, Celestials, Behemoths, Kami, Oni, and many other creatures to add more of that they've gone and created.
Pathfinder Review: Bestiary 3
- Thread starter Erdrick Dragin
- Start date
There better be a Bestiary 4. No monster line is ever complete, any TTRPG company should know that! They have more Divs, Asura, Celestials, Behemoths, Kami, Oni, and many other creatures to add more of that they've gone and created.
Steel_Wind
Legend
Last month, Paizo Publishing LLC released Bestiary 3 for Pathfinder RPG and by now the book should have made it onto the shelves of your FLGS.
While the first monster book for any RPG is part of the must-have core system, subsequent volumes and collections of monsters tend to rapidly diminish in both quality and utility. In the past, this decline has been quite noticeable by the time the third volume of any “monster manual” has been released. Accordingly, I must admit that I had relatively low expectations for Bestiary 3. Those expectations were not raised by the pre-release buzz concerning Bestiary 3, either. One of the roles that Bestiary 3 was to fill was to act as a sort of “Oriental Monstrous Compendium” to accompany Paizo’s roll-out of Tian-Xia as well as to assist GM’s of the Jade Regent Adventure Path, a heavily “eastern themed” adventure epic for PFRPG.
To top it off, the considerable excitement and buzz which accompanied Frog God Games’ 800 page+ Tome of Horrors Complete for Pathfinder RPG last September left me thoroughly underwhelmed in terms of my own perceived “need” for a Bestiary 3. After all, I already had Bestiary 1 and Bestiary 2, monsters from the various Adventure Path installments, plus many more foes from the various modules and Pathfinder Chronicles released by Paizo over the past nearly three years. Include into that collection the various demonic, diabolic, and daemonic horrors from the three volumes of the “Books of the Damned” and add the massive Tome of Horrors Complete, too? As you might imagine, I was simply not feeling any sharp hunger for yet-another-monster-book for Pathfinder. Fact is, I felt pretty much overwhelmed with monster material for Pathfinder already.
So when I cracked the Bestiary 3, I frankly wasn’t expecting much and I wasn’t terribly excited by the supposed promise of the book, either. However, as I started to turn the pages, my indifference changed to mild interest and then quickly morphed into pleasure as the pages kept turning and the various monsters Paizo had put together impressed me – a lot.
It turns out that Bestiary 3 is a not only a useful monster book for Pathfinder RPG, it is an extremely useful book; moreover, it is a far better game supplement, on balance, than Bestiary 2 was.
The key to Bestiary 3’s quality goes beyond the usual high production values that Paizo is known for. Yes, the book is well illustrated – sometimes gorgeously so; however, I expected it would be. The writing is also up to Paizo’s usual standards, too. While those are certainly important aspects in achieving a quality product, their mere presence isn’t enough on its own to put the Bestiary 3 over the top. The key to that success is the monsters themselves -- and it is in this respect that Paizo gets it right.
There are 268 monsters featured in the 320 page book, the vast majority of which stick to the standard one-page-per-monster Pathfinder format (the balance of the book is taken up with the few monsters and template types that take more than one page and the various appendices in Bestiary 3). While many of the monsters are completely new, many are adapted from earlier iterations of the game and some are “classic” monsters from the 1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup> edition eras.
While by no means an exhaustive list, by way of example, familiar monsters in the Bestiary 3 include: allip, adherer, Androsphinx, Animal Lord, ascomoid, atomie, axe beak, bandersnatch, brass golem, carbuncle, caryatid column, catfolk, demilich, desert giant, dire corby, disenchanter, dragonne, faerie dragon, flail snail, flumph, forest dragon, ant lions (giant versions), giant owl, hag (annis), incubus, jackalwere, kirin, lammasu, nixie, ratfolk, royal naga, sea dragon, vodyanoi, water naga, and the wolf-in-sheep’s clothing. I must stress that this is simply my own list compiled as a matter of first impression and is by no means an exhaustive list – I may (and probably did) miss a dozen or more "classic monsters" from prior iterations of the game which are not reflected in the above list.
Careful readers will notice that some of these monsters have also appeared in previous Paizo products. For example, all of the monsters in the entire Bonus Bestiary have been reproduced in Bestiary 3. The Bonus Bestiary was a free 16 page product created by Paizo for distribution as part of FREE RPG Day nearly three years ago and is no longer in print. It is highly collectible and has been exceedingly hard to find for a long time now other than in .pdf form. For those GMs looking for the creatures in the Bonus Bestiary in bound print format – the Bestiary 3 fills that void.
While the stat blocks for the monsters previously presented in the Bonus Bestiary are, for the most part, unchanged, the descriptions of the monsters themselves are different. James Jacobs explained on the Paizo Message Boards that when the Bonus Bestiary was in production several years ago, Paizo had not yet settled upon their format for presenting monsters and were still experimenting with various approaches at that time. The versions of the monsters which now appear in the Bestiary 3 are the “official versions” of the monsters in the Pathfinder RPG and supersede the versions previously presented in the Bonus Bestiary.
Similarly (and rather surprisingly) the Bestiary 3 contains seven of the monsters that appeared in last year’s Misfit Monsters Redeemed. The focus of Misfit Monsters Redeemed was in presenting new and detailed backstories and monster ecologies explaining – and redeeming – twelve monsters from previous iterations of the game that were adjudged so silly and inane as to be worthy of entry into the “Hall of Shame”. Evidently, the editors at Paizo were happy enough with the new versions of the Adherer, Disenchanter, Dire Corby, Flail Snail, Flumph, Tojanda and Wolf-in-Sheep’s Clothing that they have now been deemed worthy enough to be included in the Bestiary 3. To be clear, much of the backstory and reimagining that accompanied these foes in Misfit Monsters Redeemed is absent from their entries in Bestiary 3, however, it's still nice to have easy access to the stat block.
A few other monsters have appeared in modules and even in Pathfinder Society Scenarios in the same or similar form (the classic Caryatid Column, for example). Those monsters have now been consolidated beneath two covers to facilitate their ease of use at the table.
Owners of FGG's Tome of Horrors Complete will also notice that as many of the so-called “classic monsters” which appear in Bestiary 3 also appear in ToHC; however, there is almost always some difference between the two versions of these “Pathfinderized” monsters. The CRs of the versions of the creatures between the two books often vary, together with the various standard and special abilities ascribed to each foe. My general impression is that the versions of the monsters which appear in the ToHC are usually the more lethal versions as between the two – which I think is simply a reflection that the monsters in ToHC derive from a version of the game where Epic rules were assumed – whereas those in Bestiary 3 assumes just the opposite. In the final analysis, I’m happy to have both the Bestiary 3 and ToHC versions, but if I had to express a preference, usually (though not always) it would be for the Bestiary 3 version of the monster.
Left out of my list of classic monsters which reappear in the Bestiary 3 is the Graveknight, the monster which graces the cover of Bestiary 3 and was clearly inspired by the classic Death Knight from the 1<sup>st</sup> edition Fiend Folio. Fans of the DragonLance and Ravenloft settings saga will recall that the 1<sup>st</sup> edition Death Knight was the actual monster type of Lord Soth, the Knight of the Black Rose. Whatever the case, Paizo has implemented the new version of the Death Knight to the game as an acquired template. Whether using the stock example presented or creating your own, the Graveknight is an entertainingly lethal (and somewhat overpowered) kick-ass undead knight of unspeakable power... which is to say that I thought it was pretty cool.
The Asian themed monsters in the book are well done and the illustrations are top notch. More importantly, I did not find that their numbers were such that they overwhelmed the book in terms of their quantity or prominence. There are various Imperial dragons, Onis, Asuras and Divs in Bestiary 3, but the total number of Asian themed monsters is probably about 10% of the book overall. If you were hoping for a true “Oriental Monstrous Compendium” for Pathfinder – then you will be disappointed to discover that Bestiary 3 simply isn’t that sort of book. However, if you were in the camp that isn’t terribly interested in Asian themed monsters, then you will not feel put upon or otherwise take umbrage that Paizo has put too much peanut butter into your chocolate. To me, this was a plus. Of course, to others, YMMV.
Lastly, there are a large number of mundane animals (and some giant versions of same) which appear in Bestiary 3, including a new collection of six smaller animals suitable for use as familiars. I found the inclusion of these mundane animals a welcome addition to my table and the emphasis on new animals for use as familiars was greatly appreciated. The new animals in Bestiary 3 for use as small familiars include stat blocks for: flying squirrel, fox, goat, otter, pig and the raccoon.
While the Paizo Message Boards have featured a lively discussion on the possible monsters to include in a Bestiary 4, I don’t think it is at all clear that there will necessarily be a Bestiary 4, or at least, it is not at all clear that Bestiary 4 will be released in 2012. In discussions during past seminars at Gencon, Paizo Publisher Erik Mona has expressed his own doubts about how many general monster books Paizo could publish before it found itself going to that well once-too-often. It also seemed to me that the inclusion of monsters previously released in the Bonus Bestiary and in Misfit Monsters Redeemed imported a certain sense of ... finality and completeness to the Bestiary product line. While I expect that Paizo has made no final determination on this matter, for the time being, my best guess is that we won’t be seeing a Bestiary 4 in 2012. The Bestiary field may be destined to lie fallow for a while.
I spoke with Erik Mona concerning this a few weeks ago to ask him about his views on the likelihood of our seeing a Bestiary 4 in December 2012. Mona was uncharacteristically cagey and indicated that he was not yet ready to announce what Paizo’s Xmas 2012 book would be. From his response, it was clear that Paizo has made a decision but prefers to delay that announcement until later this spring or perhaps as late as Paizocon this July. As with all things, time will tell.
While it may well be that we will see a Bestiary 4, my hunch is that the next monster book is more likely to be more tightly thematic in nature and less likely to be a “general” monster book like the first three Bestiaries. I’m not saying that we won’t ever see a Bestiary 4 – but I wouldn’t bet on seeing it a year from now.
Which, in the circumstances, is just fine, because with the release of Bestiary 3 I have all the monsters I am going to need for quite a long while.
Title: Bestiary 3
Publisher: Paizo Publishing LLC
Price: $39.99 Paizo.com PDF $9.99 Paizo.com
Highly Recommended: all Pathfinder GMs.
While the first monster book for any RPG is part of the must-have core system, subsequent volumes and collections of monsters tend to rapidly diminish in both quality and utility. In the past, this decline has been quite noticeable by the time the third volume of any “monster manual” has been released. Accordingly, I must admit that I had relatively low expectations for Bestiary 3. Those expectations were not raised by the pre-release buzz concerning Bestiary 3, either. One of the roles that Bestiary 3 was to fill was to act as a sort of “Oriental Monstrous Compendium” to accompany Paizo’s roll-out of Tian-Xia as well as to assist GM’s of the Jade Regent Adventure Path, a heavily “eastern themed” adventure epic for PFRPG.
To top it off, the considerable excitement and buzz which accompanied Frog God Games’ 800 page+ Tome of Horrors Complete for Pathfinder RPG last September left me thoroughly underwhelmed in terms of my own perceived “need” for a Bestiary 3. After all, I already had Bestiary 1 and Bestiary 2, monsters from the various Adventure Path installments, plus many more foes from the various modules and Pathfinder Chronicles released by Paizo over the past nearly three years. Include into that collection the various demonic, diabolic, and daemonic horrors from the three volumes of the “Books of the Damned” and add the massive Tome of Horrors Complete, too? As you might imagine, I was simply not feeling any sharp hunger for yet-another-monster-book for Pathfinder. Fact is, I felt pretty much overwhelmed with monster material for Pathfinder already.So when I cracked the Bestiary 3, I frankly wasn’t expecting much and I wasn’t terribly excited by the supposed promise of the book, either. However, as I started to turn the pages, my indifference changed to mild interest and then quickly morphed into pleasure as the pages kept turning and the various monsters Paizo had put together impressed me – a lot.
It turns out that Bestiary 3 is a not only a useful monster book for Pathfinder RPG, it is an extremely useful book; moreover, it is a far better game supplement, on balance, than Bestiary 2 was.
The key to Bestiary 3’s quality goes beyond the usual high production values that Paizo is known for. Yes, the book is well illustrated – sometimes gorgeously so; however, I expected it would be. The writing is also up to Paizo’s usual standards, too. While those are certainly important aspects in achieving a quality product, their mere presence isn’t enough on its own to put the Bestiary 3 over the top. The key to that success is the monsters themselves -- and it is in this respect that Paizo gets it right.
There are 268 monsters featured in the 320 page book, the vast majority of which stick to the standard one-page-per-monster Pathfinder format (the balance of the book is taken up with the few monsters and template types that take more than one page and the various appendices in Bestiary 3). While many of the monsters are completely new, many are adapted from earlier iterations of the game and some are “classic” monsters from the 1<sup>st</sup> and 2<sup>nd</sup> edition eras.
While by no means an exhaustive list, by way of example, familiar monsters in the Bestiary 3 include: allip, adherer, Androsphinx, Animal Lord, ascomoid, atomie, axe beak, bandersnatch, brass golem, carbuncle, caryatid column, catfolk, demilich, desert giant, dire corby, disenchanter, dragonne, faerie dragon, flail snail, flumph, forest dragon, ant lions (giant versions), giant owl, hag (annis), incubus, jackalwere, kirin, lammasu, nixie, ratfolk, royal naga, sea dragon, vodyanoi, water naga, and the wolf-in-sheep’s clothing. I must stress that this is simply my own list compiled as a matter of first impression and is by no means an exhaustive list – I may (and probably did) miss a dozen or more "classic monsters" from prior iterations of the game which are not reflected in the above list.
Careful readers will notice that some of these monsters have also appeared in previous Paizo products. For example, all of the monsters in the entire Bonus Bestiary have been reproduced in Bestiary 3. The Bonus Bestiary was a free 16 page product created by Paizo for distribution as part of FREE RPG Day nearly three years ago and is no longer in print. It is highly collectible and has been exceedingly hard to find for a long time now other than in .pdf form. For those GMs looking for the creatures in the Bonus Bestiary in bound print format – the Bestiary 3 fills that void.
While the stat blocks for the monsters previously presented in the Bonus Bestiary are, for the most part, unchanged, the descriptions of the monsters themselves are different. James Jacobs explained on the Paizo Message Boards that when the Bonus Bestiary was in production several years ago, Paizo had not yet settled upon their format for presenting monsters and were still experimenting with various approaches at that time. The versions of the monsters which now appear in the Bestiary 3 are the “official versions” of the monsters in the Pathfinder RPG and supersede the versions previously presented in the Bonus Bestiary.Similarly (and rather surprisingly) the Bestiary 3 contains seven of the monsters that appeared in last year’s Misfit Monsters Redeemed. The focus of Misfit Monsters Redeemed was in presenting new and detailed backstories and monster ecologies explaining – and redeeming – twelve monsters from previous iterations of the game that were adjudged so silly and inane as to be worthy of entry into the “Hall of Shame”. Evidently, the editors at Paizo were happy enough with the new versions of the Adherer, Disenchanter, Dire Corby, Flail Snail, Flumph, Tojanda and Wolf-in-Sheep’s Clothing that they have now been deemed worthy enough to be included in the Bestiary 3. To be clear, much of the backstory and reimagining that accompanied these foes in Misfit Monsters Redeemed is absent from their entries in Bestiary 3, however, it's still nice to have easy access to the stat block.
A few other monsters have appeared in modules and even in Pathfinder Society Scenarios in the same or similar form (the classic Caryatid Column, for example). Those monsters have now been consolidated beneath two covers to facilitate their ease of use at the table.
Owners of FGG's Tome of Horrors Complete will also notice that as many of the so-called “classic monsters” which appear in Bestiary 3 also appear in ToHC; however, there is almost always some difference between the two versions of these “Pathfinderized” monsters. The CRs of the versions of the creatures between the two books often vary, together with the various standard and special abilities ascribed to each foe. My general impression is that the versions of the monsters which appear in the ToHC are usually the more lethal versions as between the two – which I think is simply a reflection that the monsters in ToHC derive from a version of the game where Epic rules were assumed – whereas those in Bestiary 3 assumes just the opposite. In the final analysis, I’m happy to have both the Bestiary 3 and ToHC versions, but if I had to express a preference, usually (though not always) it would be for the Bestiary 3 version of the monster.
Left out of my list of classic monsters which reappear in the Bestiary 3 is the Graveknight, the monster which graces the cover of Bestiary 3 and was clearly inspired by the classic Death Knight from the 1<sup>st</sup> edition Fiend Folio. Fans of the DragonLance and Ravenloft settings saga will recall that the 1<sup>st</sup> edition Death Knight was the actual monster type of Lord Soth, the Knight of the Black Rose. Whatever the case, Paizo has implemented the new version of the Death Knight to the game as an acquired template. Whether using the stock example presented or creating your own, the Graveknight is an entertainingly lethal (and somewhat overpowered) kick-ass undead knight of unspeakable power... which is to say that I thought it was pretty cool.
The Asian themed monsters in the book are well done and the illustrations are top notch. More importantly, I did not find that their numbers were such that they overwhelmed the book in terms of their quantity or prominence. There are various Imperial dragons, Onis, Asuras and Divs in Bestiary 3, but the total number of Asian themed monsters is probably about 10% of the book overall. If you were hoping for a true “Oriental Monstrous Compendium” for Pathfinder – then you will be disappointed to discover that Bestiary 3 simply isn’t that sort of book. However, if you were in the camp that isn’t terribly interested in Asian themed monsters, then you will not feel put upon or otherwise take umbrage that Paizo has put too much peanut butter into your chocolate. To me, this was a plus. Of course, to others, YMMV. Lastly, there are a large number of mundane animals (and some giant versions of same) which appear in Bestiary 3, including a new collection of six smaller animals suitable for use as familiars. I found the inclusion of these mundane animals a welcome addition to my table and the emphasis on new animals for use as familiars was greatly appreciated. The new animals in Bestiary 3 for use as small familiars include stat blocks for: flying squirrel, fox, goat, otter, pig and the raccoon.
While the Paizo Message Boards have featured a lively discussion on the possible monsters to include in a Bestiary 4, I don’t think it is at all clear that there will necessarily be a Bestiary 4, or at least, it is not at all clear that Bestiary 4 will be released in 2012. In discussions during past seminars at Gencon, Paizo Publisher Erik Mona has expressed his own doubts about how many general monster books Paizo could publish before it found itself going to that well once-too-often. It also seemed to me that the inclusion of monsters previously released in the Bonus Bestiary and in Misfit Monsters Redeemed imported a certain sense of ... finality and completeness to the Bestiary product line. While I expect that Paizo has made no final determination on this matter, for the time being, my best guess is that we won’t be seeing a Bestiary 4 in 2012. The Bestiary field may be destined to lie fallow for a while.
I spoke with Erik Mona concerning this a few weeks ago to ask him about his views on the likelihood of our seeing a Bestiary 4 in December 2012. Mona was uncharacteristically cagey and indicated that he was not yet ready to announce what Paizo’s Xmas 2012 book would be. From his response, it was clear that Paizo has made a decision but prefers to delay that announcement until later this spring or perhaps as late as Paizocon this July. As with all things, time will tell.
While it may well be that we will see a Bestiary 4, my hunch is that the next monster book is more likely to be more tightly thematic in nature and less likely to be a “general” monster book like the first three Bestiaries. I’m not saying that we won’t ever see a Bestiary 4 – but I wouldn’t bet on seeing it a year from now.
Which, in the circumstances, is just fine, because with the release of Bestiary 3 I have all the monsters I am going to need for quite a long while.
Title: Bestiary 3
Publisher: Paizo Publishing LLC
Price: $39.99 Paizo.com PDF $9.99 Paizo.com
Highly Recommended: all Pathfinder GMs.
Last edited by a moderator:
Christopher Hawkins
First Post
For one glorious moment, my brain read 'dire corby' as 'dire corgi'. Oh well, we can still live in hope.
*Retreats to dreams of the queen going to war with her pack of dire corgis*.
*Retreats to dreams of the queen going to war with her pack of dire corgis*.
Rogue Agent
First Post
My feeling is that, as long as the quality and utility of the monsters remains high, there's always room for more monsters.
With that being said, if you look back over the history of the game one trend does appear: The best and most memorable monsters almost universally seem to have their origin in adventures. Maybe Paizo would be best served letting some more adventures cook through as a fountainhead for inspiration.
Take a year off, do the NPC collection instead, and let Bestiary 4 come out in 2013 to support the Mythic (read: Epic) level rules that go along with the Return of Baba Yaga AP. (She's scheduled to return to Irrisen in 4713 to claim her daughter and grandchildren, and Golarion advances 1 year per year in the real world.)
As long as Book of the Damned IV is all of the Qlippoth weirdness they can cram into 64 pages, I can wait a year on the next bestiary.
As long as Book of the Damned IV is all of the Qlippoth weirdness they can cram into 64 pages, I can wait a year on the next bestiary.
delericho
Legend
Between the 3 Bestiaries, there is a huge range of monsters in print. If you really need more, there's always "Tome of Horrors Complete"!
If I were in Paizo's shoes, I would announce that there won't be a "Bestiary 4" in the immediate future... but I would stop well short of saying there won't ever be such a book. It's likely that, in a few years time, the monthly AP product will have generated enough interesting monsters (and that many of them will be long-enough out of print) to justify compiling them into a "Bestiary 4".
IOW, do it when you have enough material to make a good product; don't simply publish for the sake of it, and likewise don't declare "never".
(Oh, and incidentally, regarding "Bestiary 3" - I have it, I like it. Excellent book. In fact, the lure of switching from 3.5e to Pathfinder is becoming ever harder to resist.)
If I were in Paizo's shoes, I would announce that there won't be a "Bestiary 4" in the immediate future... but I would stop well short of saying there won't ever be such a book. It's likely that, in a few years time, the monthly AP product will have generated enough interesting monsters (and that many of them will be long-enough out of print) to justify compiling them into a "Bestiary 4".
IOW, do it when you have enough material to make a good product; don't simply publish for the sake of it, and likewise don't declare "never".
(Oh, and incidentally, regarding "Bestiary 3" - I have it, I like it. Excellent book. In fact, the lure of switching from 3.5e to Pathfinder is becoming ever harder to resist.)
Christopher Hawkins
First Post
Managed to find an image of a dire corgi
Corgi, dire by *butterfrog on deviantART
Anyone willing to have a shot at a statblock?
Corgi, dire by *butterfrog on deviantART
Anyone willing to have a shot at a statblock?
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