Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder Sneak Peeks (Old thread)

[Atlatl Jones]

The statement presumes that the conditions for flurry are always right there in the monk's face waiting to get blitzed.

In my experience with 3e, they almost always are, after the first round of combat.

Being good when stading in one spot surrounded by a bunch of attackers (like in a Jackie Chan movie) is not in conflict with being good at outmaneuvering enemies for both offensice and defensive advantage (like in a Jackie Chan movie).

It's not in conflict per se. But it becomes a problem when the monk is so much worse at combat when not flurrying that it's almost never worth it to try to outmaneuver. Most of the time, any "advantage" you'd get from maneuvering will pale in comparison with the advantage of making multiple attacks at a higher attack bonus.

Though the fact that they get a full BAB for their CMB does help. It just means that, aside from at the lowest levels, a monk will almost always be better off using some sort of maneuver as a standard action rather than attacking. I don't mind that, actually.

 

[Synchronicity]

They don't get full BAB for FoB, get their monk level. I wonder what the new multiclass restrictions may be for the Monk? If I were to make a Monk10/Wiz10, my BAB for FoB would only be +10/+5...

The current suspicion regarding FoB BAB is that the Monk may get something similar to their Maneuver Training ability from Beta, which reads; 'a monk uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his combat maneuver bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.' Modified for FoB, of course.

If this does turn out to be the case, your Monk 10/Wizard 10 would have +15/+10/+5 BAB for FoB. However, it's all speculation at this point.

As to why they haven't given monks full BAB and had done with it, the reason stated on the Paizo boards is that it would throw off feat acquisition for monks (i.e., let them qualify for certain feats sooner than is currently the case) and harm the backwards compatability of the class. These are arguments I can support; this way, the monk feels unique.

 

[Atlatl Jones]

As to why they haven't given monks full BAB and had done with it, the reason stated on the Paizo boards is that it would throw off feat acquisition for monks (i.e., let them qualify for certain feats sooner than is currently the case) and harm the backwards compatability of the class. These are arguments I can support; this way, the monk feels unique.

They also said that it would throw off monk prestige class prerequisites, and would make Monk even more tempting as a quick multiclassing "dip."

I think it's a bit cludgy, but I can accept it.

 

[dm4hire]

I was requested to start a new thread in order to make it easier to follow as it was getting long. If a mod could lock this one so they don't compete I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

To get to the new thread go here.

 

[BryonD]

In my experience with 3e, they almost always are, after the first round of combat.

That is unfortunate.
I've certainly seen it. It should happen sometimes. But "almost always" is way off the mark for me.

It's not in conflict per se. But it becomes a problem when the monk is so much worse at combat when not flurrying that it's almost never worth it to try to outmaneuver. Most of the time, any "advantage" you'd get from maneuvering will pale in comparison with the advantage of making multiple attacks at a higher attack bonus.

Again, the difference here is you are assuming that a) they can just stand there and make flurries and b) any attack against any target is just as good.

My experience greatly conflicts with this.



Sorry - Off to the new thread now...