Pathfinder 1E Pathfinder: The reason the OGL was a bad idea for WOTC

[Sunderstone]

So its just something to remember when you consider the new GSL. WOTC has some good reasons to want to restrict things this time around, and while we gamers want our cake and the ability to eat it too...companies only make products when they make profit. Cut into that profit, and you potentially cut out the product.

Do you even care if they have a good reason or not? Arent you a consumer like myself and many others here? Are you getting a cut?

The OGL gave us "CHOICE". Great 3PPs that published some damn fine products. Most of which contained better material than WotC's offerings. I personally like Necro, Paizo, Goodman, GR (the Freeport stuff) and the early Malhavoc products. Thats all that matters to me on a consumer/gamer level. If I was pro-4E Id love to see this kind of thing happen all over again.

I dont see this as fragmenting our already niche hobby, the only thing fragmenting is WotC's share (past the three needed core books that is). If WotC needs more money, let them make better products. Its simple.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Do you even care if they have a good reason or not? Arent you a consumer like myself and many others here? Are you getting a cut?

The OGL gave us "CHOICE". Great 3PPs that published some damn fine products. Most of which contained better material than WotC's offerings. I personally like Necro, Paizo, Goodman, GR (the Freeport stuff) and the early Malhavoc products. Thats all that matters to me on a consumer/gamer level. If I was pro-4E Id love to see this kind of thing happen all over again.

I dont see this as fragmenting our already niche hobby, the only thing fragmenting is WotC's share (past the three needed core books that is). If WotC needs more money, let them make better products. Its simple.

3PP enjoys a much higher profile on the internet than the general gaming public. Its easy to overestimate things.

 

[ProfessorCirno]

Right now with WOTC changing their GSL, there's all sorts of discussion about the old OGL and new GSL and the pros and cons of each.

I loved the OGL, I loved the freedom it gave publishers, and loved some of the material that came about it.

But for those who are up in arms about the strictness of the GSL, consider this:

The OGL allowed Paizo to create pathfinder, and basically create direct competition to WOTC's 4th edition.

For us consumers, that's great. Two systems to choose from! But from WOTC's standpoint, that's horrible. The dnd market is already a tight market, and consistent profits are already hard to come by.

So its just something to remember when you consider the new GSL. WOTC has some good reasons to want to restrict things this time around, and while we gamers want our cake and the ability to eat it too...companies only make products when they make profit. Cut into that profit, and you potentially cut out the product.

So because of the OGL and because of Pathfinder, WotC is losing customers who don't like 4e to begin with?

Gosh, I just don't know how they're going to cope with that.

 

[carmachu]

Right now with WOTC changing their GSL, there's all sorts of discussion about the old OGL and new GSL and the pros and cons of each.

I loved the OGL, I loved the freedom it gave publishers, and loved some of the material that came about it.

But for those who are up in arms about the strictness of the GSL, consider this:

The OGL allowed Paizo to create pathfinder, and basically create direct competition to WOTC's 4th edition.

For us consumers, that's great. Two systems to choose from! But from WOTC's standpoint, that's horrible. The dnd market is already a tight market, and consistent profits are already hard to come by.

So its just something to remember when you consider the new GSL. WOTC has some good reasons to want to restrict things this time around, and while we gamers want our cake and the ability to eat it too...companies only make products when they make profit. Cut into that profit, and you potentially cut out the product.

No your reasoning is flawed.

This is ALL of WOTC's bunggling in the GSL fiasco. From the delays to the strictness...without it Pathfinder would not have come about.

Assuming for a moment that the new GSL is strict, but 3PP friendly. Over at Paizo Erik has said.....when discussed the new GSL is coming...it would have been great a year ago.

IF Wotc had made the GSL 3pp friendly, but restricted, they wouldnt have been facing this "problem" in the first place. This is all a problem of their own making. It gave the grognads a place to go to.

Wotc has no one to blame but themselves.

 

[Sunderstone]

3PP enjoys a much higher profile on the internet than the general gaming public. Its easy to overestimate things.

Doesnt matter to me, I overestimate quite abit with my wallet. I suspect that I may not be alone in this boat or we wouldnt be having this thread. Higher profile or not, 3PPs seem to get the most of our money.

All that counts is my crew's enjoyment of the game. If alot of it comes from smaller voices, so be it. These voices seem to be growing btw.

 

[Sunderstone]

No your reasoning is flawed.

This wasnt needed .

Remember, for alot of us it wasnt the GSL at all. 4E had a flavor (fluff and crunch) we might not have liked to begin with.

 

[Gailbraithe]

What makes the OGL bad for WOTC is that they were bought by a large corporation, which means a lot more overhead and kickbacks up the chain, which means they need to sustain a higher profit margin, which means they need to dominate rather than simply compete.

If Pathfinder ends up hurting WOTC, it won't be becuase of the OGL, it will be because of coporate bloat making WOTC too sluggish and fat to compete in a small niche market like the gaming industry.

Basically, D&D has to finacially support a lot more people than Pathfinder does, and that is ulitimately bad for D&D.

Gaming survived the the death of TSR, which was brought on by bloat. It will survive the death of WOTC, if that's what happens.

 

[carmachu]

This wasnt needed .

Remember, for alot of us it wasnt the GSL at all. 4E had a flavor (fluff and crunch) we might not have liked to begin with.

Well it is.

This isnt an OGL problem/issue.

This is a Wotc screwing up with the GSL problem/issue. Be honest: if Wotc had a firm, but 3PP friendly GSL that was on time or didnt keep the 3PP's hanging forever, you know we wouldnt be even talking about Pathfinder RPG. The 3rd Adventure Path released this month would probably have been released as a 4e product-if not this one, the 4th one for sure.

I dont like 4e. I wont be playing 4e. Either 3.x or Pathfinder for me and mine.

But there was a very good chance we wouldnt have nearly the support for 3.x if Wotc hadnt screwed the pooch on the lateness of teh GSL or ho hostile it was to 3PP.

 

[catsclaw227]

It sounds to me that people are missing the point of what Stalker0 is trying to say.

I could be wrong, but I think he means that Pathfinder is an example of a company taking an OGL product that is similar (for better or worse) than an original product of WOTC. i.e. If 3.5 was still being supported by WOTC, Pathfinder would cut into it's profits.

And therefore, don't be suprised if the changes to the GSL are still strict enough to prevent someone from making a P4thfinder based around the 4e rules to cut into 4e profits.

 

[carmachu]

It sounds to me that people are missing the point of what Stalker0 is trying to say.

I could be wrong, but I think he means that Pathfinder is an example of a company taking an OGL product that is similar (for better or worse) than an original product of WOTC. i.e. If 3.5 was still being supported by WOTC, Pathfinder would cut into it's profits.

And therefore, don't be suprised if the changes to the GSL are still strict enough to prevent someone from making a P4thfinder based around the 4e rules to cut into 4e profits.

None of this would have happened if Wotc wasnt late on the GSL and had it so draconian.

Pathfinder RPG would NOT have come out in 3.5....as its not needed. Its ONLY needed to support paizo's AP's and Adventures....since there is no longer a "core ruleset" for 3.5 in print. Pathfinder RPG isnt needed in 3.5, but it is in 4e.

OGL isnt really the problem. Wotc's handling of the transition to a new license was.