Pathfinder vs. 3.5E?

[Jeff Wilder]

Personally, I'm still concerned with the added power of the Pathfinder classes. Make no mistake, the additional feats will INCREASE the offense of the classes but you're not seeing a similar increase in DEFENCE thus, rocket tag will simply occur earlier.

I'm seeing some additions to defense in Pathfinder. Just as a couple of examples, the fighter's Armor Training and the barbarian's Guarded Stance.

I'm also not at all convinced that "damage output" and "power level" are synonymous, as you seem to be using them. The 3.5 core cleric isn't a particularly efficient damage dealing machine, but it is very powerful.

In addition, Pathfinder is finding ways to ramp down out-of-control offensive tricks, such as that exploited by the 3.5 druid, and toning down many spells (including save-or-dies), so I think overall offensive output may well drop. It seems like increases, if there are any, will be with martial characters, which is fine with me.

Three additional feats over a 20 level span will make some difference, sure. (And it's only one additional feat up to 10th level.) But not as much as you make out.

 

[SSquirrel]

It must be really nice to live in a world where the only shallow complaints are about 4e, and every complaint about everything else is in depth and well studied.

Sadly, that world is not the one most of us live in.

You're missing my point I think. I don't mind reasonable complaints about a game system. Completely hyperbolic statements that don't help anyone on the other hand rub me the wrong way. I don't like seeing them about 3.5 either.

 

[SSquirrel]

Well, considering the non-core WotC books aren't OGL, they can't really balance them. So what's to do? Re-balance the ones that they CAN edit so that they become the gold standard once again.

No what they have said they are doing is looking at all the books released after the core which they felt were overpowered compared to the core classes and rebalancing against those. No they cant' release their own versions of those classes, but they are using them as the comparable power level to balance against. Personally I just think that is continuing a mistake in power creep that WotC made w/later releases that I handle simply by not allowing things I feel are overpowered.

 

[billd91]

No what they have said they are doing is looking at all the books released after the core which they felt were overpowered compared to the core classes and rebalancing against those. No they cant' release their own versions of those classes, but they are using them as the comparable power level to balance against. Personally I just think that is continuing a mistake in power creep that WotC made w/later releases that I handle simply by not allowing things I feel are overpowered.

I think you're right to a degree. The best design decision, had they owned the IP, would have been to revise the core to fix perceived problems, and the redesigned the splat book add-ons. Since they don't own or have rights to use the splat book IP, that's right out.

They could have rebalanced the core without any concern for the splat books and just advised DM's to avoid them or revise as they saw fit. Since that's not really much of a change with respect to the splat books now and some of the elements of those books are reasonably popular, that's probably not a very good business decision. They want the game to have broad appeal and compatibility among 3.5 source users while still making changes to right some imbalances.

Hence, since the genie is out of the bottle and you can't get it back in, rise to the level of the genie where you've got to do so. It's an eminently understandable decision on their part.