DMs Guild Pay What You Want on the DMs Guild - An Analysis and Explanation
- Thread starter Jimbro
- Start date
ProgBard
Explorer
So I'm one of the fortunate few who's done pretty well with a PWYW item on the DMGuild (as in a silver seller, well reviewed and rated, made the top fifteen for the last few weeks). It's made folding money - not pay-the-bills money, but not just pizza money, either. I'd estimate 15-20% of downloads have been paying, and I've been lucky enough to have both ratings and reviews in the double digits, with at least one review of the kind that every creator hopes the criticism gods will bring them if they've been good - an ideal customer who really gets the philosophy behind the product.
I would guess it's done as well as it has because it successfully exploited an empty niche in the market, and it probably doesn't hurt that I have experience in writing, editing, and formatting that served me well in turning an idea into a coherent product. I expect the time will come in the not-too-distant future that the customer population it serves will more or less have been exploited, and it will go into its long-tail phase. And that will be okay too.
I have a hunch, on no particularly solid evidence, that making it PWYW has given it a broader footprint than it would have had otherwise. I'm okay with that meaning that some people get it without reaching into their pockets. It was intended to be in part a gift to the community of gamers, because I think it's useful and worth sharing. I won't lie that it's also nice to have it as a vector to get my name out, but I'm not really making it part of anything so formal as a "marketing strategy." Approaching it this way makes me intensely grateful and humbled by the number of people who have felt it worth paying for. (I also have the luxury that I don't need to make my living doing this, and don't expect to. I try to be aware of the privilege this affords me.)
But - speaking as someone who has also, from time to time, played music for a public audience - this is not the same thing as "playing for exposure." This is playing for tips. There is a vast, vast difference between the two. And the reality of the creative trades is that you start out playing for tips*, probably at someone else's show. In that light, I'm happy to look at the DMGuild as the huge ongoing open mic of 5e, where from time to time you're lucky enough, if you have the chops, to get a cut of the take.
None of that means that I don't value my work. I value it a great deal. If the world were as I would have it, I would be getting the income of my current day job for making up stories and adventures and writing quirky folksongs in tricky time signatures. That's not the world we got, though; almost no one gets to do that. Putting my foot down and insisting I deserve it boots me nothing. (I deserve a lot of things, and am thankful to the Mystery that I haven't received all of them.) So I get to make the choice between participating on the terms I can, or waiting until the universe realigns to my perfect expectations of rewarding me what I'm worth. Under the circumstances, I'm happy to see what's behind Door A.
And here's something else to consider: In the game writing field, we are all facing the Crafter's Dilemma. To illustrate, one of my other hobbies is crochet. I make scarves and hats; they're nice. Every once in a while someone will see one of them and say, "You should sell these!" But here's the thing: I can't possibly charge what they're worth. Between materials and the time I put into them, even paying myself minimum wage, no one would ever pay what the calculation comes out to. A gift economy is the only thing that makes sense.
Now, the parallel doesn't quite hold up, because an infinitely-reproducible PDF might someday pay out. But enough to recoup the hours and hours and hours I put into writing and layout and design and gods help me, maybe even art? I'm not holding my breath. Which doesn't mean I'll never put one out with a fixed price tag - but that and PWYW are points on a continuum, not different scenarios.
*(Trade secret: you are always playing for tips.)
I would guess it's done as well as it has because it successfully exploited an empty niche in the market, and it probably doesn't hurt that I have experience in writing, editing, and formatting that served me well in turning an idea into a coherent product. I expect the time will come in the not-too-distant future that the customer population it serves will more or less have been exploited, and it will go into its long-tail phase. And that will be okay too.
I have a hunch, on no particularly solid evidence, that making it PWYW has given it a broader footprint than it would have had otherwise. I'm okay with that meaning that some people get it without reaching into their pockets. It was intended to be in part a gift to the community of gamers, because I think it's useful and worth sharing. I won't lie that it's also nice to have it as a vector to get my name out, but I'm not really making it part of anything so formal as a "marketing strategy." Approaching it this way makes me intensely grateful and humbled by the number of people who have felt it worth paying for. (I also have the luxury that I don't need to make my living doing this, and don't expect to. I try to be aware of the privilege this affords me.)
But - speaking as someone who has also, from time to time, played music for a public audience - this is not the same thing as "playing for exposure." This is playing for tips. There is a vast, vast difference between the two. And the reality of the creative trades is that you start out playing for tips*, probably at someone else's show. In that light, I'm happy to look at the DMGuild as the huge ongoing open mic of 5e, where from time to time you're lucky enough, if you have the chops, to get a cut of the take.
None of that means that I don't value my work. I value it a great deal. If the world were as I would have it, I would be getting the income of my current day job for making up stories and adventures and writing quirky folksongs in tricky time signatures. That's not the world we got, though; almost no one gets to do that. Putting my foot down and insisting I deserve it boots me nothing. (I deserve a lot of things, and am thankful to the Mystery that I haven't received all of them.) So I get to make the choice between participating on the terms I can, or waiting until the universe realigns to my perfect expectations of rewarding me what I'm worth. Under the circumstances, I'm happy to see what's behind Door A.
And here's something else to consider: In the game writing field, we are all facing the Crafter's Dilemma. To illustrate, one of my other hobbies is crochet. I make scarves and hats; they're nice. Every once in a while someone will see one of them and say, "You should sell these!" But here's the thing: I can't possibly charge what they're worth. Between materials and the time I put into them, even paying myself minimum wage, no one would ever pay what the calculation comes out to. A gift economy is the only thing that makes sense.
Now, the parallel doesn't quite hold up, because an infinitely-reproducible PDF might someday pay out. But enough to recoup the hours and hours and hours I put into writing and layout and design and gods help me, maybe even art? I'm not holding my breath. Which doesn't mean I'll never put one out with a fixed price tag - but that and PWYW are points on a continuum, not different scenarios.
*(Trade secret: you are always playing for tips.)
This is a really engaging thread, and it touches upon a lot of things I've been thinking about since I put up products on the DMsGuild. One other aspect that I've been struggling with is how to treat player-oriented content versus DM-oriented content. Would a player-oriented product (new class options, new feats, new backgrounds, things that generally appeal to a player primarily and a DM secondarily) generate more downloads and feedback as a PWYW title than a pay title? Likely the answer is yes. What about a DM-oriented product (new adventure, new organization, new terrain rules, things that generally appeal only to a DM)? I don't like the idea of putting more of a burden on the DM in terms of cost, but by creating content that really is meant to be utilized by only 1/6 of the total market (give or take), earning back some of the creator's time becomes much less certain by relying on tips (which is a good analogy for PWYW). But I guess that's the risk in creating DM-oriented content in the first place!
Storyteller Hero
Adventurer
I performed a little experiment yesterday and discovered a danger of making products PWYW on the DMG.
I decided to test the system by putting #00 in front of my stuff. It ended up making my products come up first on overall search when clicking DMGuild on the side menu.
This provoked an anonymous down rating and one reviewer who complained about me putting #00.
I've taken down the #00 from my titles after less than a day, but it also demonstrates that even if some reviewers may be justifiably upset, there is a potential for anonymous attackers to maliciously down rate products that are PWYW or free with little to no consequence.
I've also seen another guy called The Le get a "false rating" on DriveThruRPG from some reviewer who ranted about having a bad day.
So seller beware.
I decided to test the system by putting #00 in front of my stuff. It ended up making my products come up first on overall search when clicking DMGuild on the side menu.
This provoked an anonymous down rating and one reviewer who complained about me putting #00.
I've taken down the #00 from my titles after less than a day, but it also demonstrates that even if some reviewers may be justifiably upset, there is a potential for anonymous attackers to maliciously down rate products that are PWYW or free with little to no consequence.
I've also seen another guy called The Le get a "false rating" on DriveThruRPG from some reviewer who ranted about having a bad day.
So seller beware.
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My philosophy was/is basically that I'm a nobody, but I like doing this sort of thing in my free time, and I've been doing this sort of thing since the '90s. I love making monsters. Let me throw together a few good examples of what I can do, post them PWYW, and let those freebies sorta help me get some preview-level exposure.
Now, there are links to every other monster posted in each monster's product page, so I've got cross-promotion going on, and I've got a chief piece that has a $2 minimum because a) the art was tricky, and I'm only using my own art as rusty as I may still be, and b) it's the cornerstone of a much larger project I'm working on to catalog the missing tier of monsters in 5E.
So far, I've made... pizza money. It's impressive, actually, because I didn't really expect to move anything. Still, there's room for marketing and exposure to improve. But my point is that a few PWYW products might help sway someone who is otherwise hesitant about a $5 product into buying it by giving them a sense of the quality of the work you're producing. So... not all PWYW, but enough to give samples to new audience/readers. Then make your core works have a minimum and, if people like what they can see for free, the idea is that you'll make money on the big stuff.
Now, there are links to every other monster posted in each monster's product page, so I've got cross-promotion going on, and I've got a chief piece that has a $2 minimum because a) the art was tricky, and I'm only using my own art as rusty as I may still be, and b) it's the cornerstone of a much larger project I'm working on to catalog the missing tier of monsters in 5E.
So far, I've made... pizza money. It's impressive, actually, because I didn't really expect to move anything. Still, there's room for marketing and exposure to improve. But my point is that a few PWYW products might help sway someone who is otherwise hesitant about a $5 product into buying it by giving them a sense of the quality of the work you're producing. So... not all PWYW, but enough to give samples to new audience/readers. Then make your core works have a minimum and, if people like what they can see for free, the idea is that you'll make money on the big stuff.
When I release my Cormyr sourcebook, I intend to use penny per page pricing.
The book should be around 50 pages to start, so it'll be priced at .50 cents.
I plan to expand it to at least 300 pages, with 50 page updates to content and artwork every 1-2 months.
The price will go up with each update, and top out at $3.00 or so.
Not much of a difference there, but at least the early buyers will enjoy free updates for the next 5-10 months as their sourcebook grows.
Edit: forgot to mention that each update will include editing to prior content (spelling, typos, mechanics), revisions to game mechanics based on customer feedback, and a portion of new content focused on what customers ask for more of.
The book should be around 50 pages to start, so it'll be priced at .50 cents.
I plan to expand it to at least 300 pages, with 50 page updates to content and artwork every 1-2 months.
The price will go up with each update, and top out at $3.00 or so.
Not much of a difference there, but at least the early buyers will enjoy free updates for the next 5-10 months as their sourcebook grows.
Edit: forgot to mention that each update will include editing to prior content (spelling, typos, mechanics), revisions to game mechanics based on customer feedback, and a portion of new content focused on what customers ask for more of.
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George Krashos
Villager
I've experimented with both PWYW and a fixed price for two offerings (Swords of Impiltur: Soargar's Legacy and Swords of Impiltur: Imbrar's Inheritance) in a projected ongoing series and the results have been interesting. The PWYW article has been downloaded some 286 times, with someone prepared to pay something on just under a 10:1 ratio. Surprisingly, the average contribution has been a tad higher than the suggested amount (which gladdens the soul, because it would seem that people quite liked it). The fixed price article, taking into account the fact that it was published later, is doing about the same in revenue terms, with an obviously starkly reduced download rate (19 and counting).
Imbar's Inheritance is likely to be my only fixed price article of this type of article that I will be writing into the future. As I said, the change to the fixed price was done as an experiment to try and work out whether there was any benefits/drawbacks to either method. On my data, there isn't, but I like the idea of more people getting a look at my work so even if they think it's worth zilch.
Of wider and greater interest is the type of article I'm writing and seeing whether it gets traction. The articles are very FR-centric, with an emphasis on setting information and realmslore and less on the "crunch" (although the crunch is there, just not the focus). It appears to me that the vast majority of punters at the DMs Guild are looking for more generic 5E fare - certainly, it's what was available only until more recently. When you start drilling down into the various subsets of potential purchasers (5E: tick; DM or player: tick; Looking for X, Y or Z: tick; Forgotten Realms fan: tick; Likes the look of your article: tick; Prepared to pay money for it: tick) it is clear that it is unlikely that there will be a significant volume of sales (downloads for free, yes - everyone loves free stuff!). It has certainly opened my eyes about the campaign setting that I love. My love and enthusiasm for the Realms had created a world-view that its fanbase was extensive (if not legion!
), but perhaps that isn't necessarily so. Makes me forgive WotC for not churning out hardcopy FR products in volume after the advent of 4E. In fiscal terms, it likely was simply not worth it. Food for thought.
-- George Krashos
Imbar's Inheritance is likely to be my only fixed price article of this type of article that I will be writing into the future. As I said, the change to the fixed price was done as an experiment to try and work out whether there was any benefits/drawbacks to either method. On my data, there isn't, but I like the idea of more people getting a look at my work so even if they think it's worth zilch.
Of wider and greater interest is the type of article I'm writing and seeing whether it gets traction. The articles are very FR-centric, with an emphasis on setting information and realmslore and less on the "crunch" (although the crunch is there, just not the focus). It appears to me that the vast majority of punters at the DMs Guild are looking for more generic 5E fare - certainly, it's what was available only until more recently. When you start drilling down into the various subsets of potential purchasers (5E: tick; DM or player: tick; Looking for X, Y or Z: tick; Forgotten Realms fan: tick; Likes the look of your article: tick; Prepared to pay money for it: tick) it is clear that it is unlikely that there will be a significant volume of sales (downloads for free, yes - everyone loves free stuff!). It has certainly opened my eyes about the campaign setting that I love. My love and enthusiasm for the Realms had created a world-view that its fanbase was extensive (if not legion!
), but perhaps that isn't necessarily so. Makes me forgive WotC for not churning out hardcopy FR products in volume after the advent of 4E. In fiscal terms, it likely was simply not worth it. Food for thought.-- George Krashos
oreofox
Adventurer
I have 3 PWYW products up on the DMs Guild, all dealing with elementals. The first one, called Lesser Elementals, was added on February 24, 2016. I made the suggested price of $1.00. In the 3-ish weeks it has been there, it has been downloaded 204 times, with 14 people actually paying money for it (gross of $9.27, with one person even paying a penny). It has also gotten 3 ratings (5, 4, and 3 stars), but 0 reviews. The second one, Elementals Expanded, was added on February 28, 2016. It has been downloaded 173 times, with 14 people paying money for it (gross of $12.65), with a suggested price of $1.00. It has received 0 reviews, and 1 rating (5 star). My newest one, Elemental Myrmidons, was added back on March 7, 2016. In the 3 days it has been up, with a suggested price of $1.00, it has been downloaded 82 times, with 2 money transactions (gross $2.00). It hasn't received any reviews or ratings.
I do feel my products are worth more than what I have made from it, but I am actually surprised that anyone decided to pay money for these. I also have 3 more products in my Elemental line, and I plan to compile them into a single book and possibly make that an item with an actual price point. I am a little sad about the % of paid vs free (6.8% on the first, 8% on the second, and 2% on the third), and I would love to get any sort of review on them. Getting reviews on anything that isn't on the "Best Seller" part of the front page seems to be difficult.
I am sorta "doing this for exposure", but that seems like a difficult uphill battle, especially with how often new items get added to the DMsGuild. I noticed that the DriveThruRPG portion of the OBS sites isn't very active (the one where you can put OGL 5e products that aren't FR and now Ravenloft items), which makes me reluctant about making any non-DMsG items for 5e. It's the sole reason I put these elemental products on the dm guild instead.
Is my stuff great? I honestly don't know. There's one monster I am not entirely certain how well it is designed, but I don't know if it is or not as I have no feedback on any of it. It's abilities reflect the monster itself, but I don't know if what I made works. And I probably never will. I am just glad for those 20 paid downloads.
I do feel my products are worth more than what I have made from it, but I am actually surprised that anyone decided to pay money for these. I also have 3 more products in my Elemental line, and I plan to compile them into a single book and possibly make that an item with an actual price point. I am a little sad about the % of paid vs free (6.8% on the first, 8% on the second, and 2% on the third), and I would love to get any sort of review on them. Getting reviews on anything that isn't on the "Best Seller" part of the front page seems to be difficult.
I am sorta "doing this for exposure", but that seems like a difficult uphill battle, especially with how often new items get added to the DMsGuild. I noticed that the DriveThruRPG portion of the OBS sites isn't very active (the one where you can put OGL 5e products that aren't FR and now Ravenloft items), which makes me reluctant about making any non-DMsG items for 5e. It's the sole reason I put these elemental products on the dm guild instead.
Is my stuff great? I honestly don't know. There's one monster I am not entirely certain how well it is designed, but I don't know if it is or not as I have no feedback on any of it. It's abilities reflect the monster itself, but I don't know if what I made works. And I probably never will. I am just glad for those 20 paid downloads.
Congrats on doing well. As someone who nearly always chooses PWYW with $0 (then re-buys for a buck or two if I really enjoyed it), I think the bare minimum I can do is give the author feedback or a review. I had downloaded two great one-shot adventures off one guy and got nearly 10 hours of gameplay, plot hooks, and my group had a blast. So a 2 minute "thanks man, this was great and I liked this part, but there was one little issue that came up in this encounter btw" is the least I can give back. So it's nice for me in that even if I don't want to shell out (yes yes, I am a cheapskate but I'm trying to do better) I can still help in other ways.
As an aside, my buddy makes these beautiful wooden fountain pens for Christmas and Bday gifts. And he makes a little bit during Christmas when he is off work and makes a dozen of them for other people to give as gifts. But same deal: after materials, rejected pieces, and spending his vacation time working, it's not that worth it for him. Although they are damn nice pens.
Personally, when DMs Guild first started I was ecstatic. Other than a couple hastily-tossed together NPCs and adjusted Orcs I am not a publisher or creator of much homebrew. I am solely a consumer, always hungry for moar monsters and adventures and great ideas that I did not want to work to come up with. To me it was "look at all the free content I have access to now." After buying the PHB, MM, and DMG, it was easy for me to think "well I've spent like $100 on 5e, I deserve some free swag."
But it isn't that at all. The stuff on there isn't made but some huge corporation that I've already sent money to for other things. It's individuals who are putting actual effort into it. They don't have a salary or editor or giant flowchart (WotC must have one up somewhere...) to help them.
Like, there was free small coffee offered at McDonald's all week near my work. I go there all the time, and there was coffee at the office, but I was like "nah, I eat here so much. And if I've ever saved all those buy-10-cups-get-1-free stickers then I easily cover my cost. Plus it's McDonald's. Ronnie and his pals are rolling in it." But that's some huge faceless corporation.
But if some small mom-and-pop cafe offered free coffee for new customers, I'd feel guilty and buy an undercooked muffin and tip them and talk about...yeast or something. And then I might mention that the muffin shouldn't squelch as you bite it. Then they can make better muffins and when other people come in, boom-> they like the muffins. And mom and pop get better, maybe they experiment and throw some walnuts or berries in it and everyone is happy.
So I'll try and give feedback on any product I get. Even if some of the monsters are decaf, or someone put raisins in an otherwise great adventure. Because if the consumers say that everything taste bad but don't offer any hints at what they are looking for, it's a lot of trial and error and possibly great ideas getting lost.
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