Paying the troops - D&D Economics
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BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
The D&D economy is based entirely on game balance and has nothing to do with supply and demand.
However, an alternate solution if you want to get "real" is to bring up the fact that most mideaval economies were based on barter. Sure, people had coins. But barter was bigger. So the guy wouldn't be buying a house. He'd build it himself, his buddies would help him, and then he'd help his buddies build their houses.
Just a thought.
However, an alternate solution if you want to get "real" is to bring up the fact that most mideaval economies were based on barter. Sure, people had coins. But barter was bigger. So the guy wouldn't be buying a house. He'd build it himself, his buddies would help him, and then he'd help his buddies build their houses.
Just a thought.
kigmatzomat
Legend
Originally Posted by kigmatzomat
Last but not least there is the notion of patriotism and tradition. It's not like our soldiers or police are paid an immense fortune by any means. The medieval equivalents must exist. You've also got to realize the low pay scales in the RAW. Urban peasants make about 300sp/year.
I did point out that in many cases military was equivalent to police and travel was rare. In It doesn't matter in this case if you are pledging your under-paid loyalty to Baron Von Local or the Great Nation of Umerika, it provides justification for joining the military.
And to go back to the low pay, if you gave a soldier room & board + 300sp/year then he is getting paid twice what a peasant does since about 90% of a typical income goes to food and shelter.
If I were a soldier I'd want a general with ranks in expert; more skill points and more likely to have the skills necessary to plan an effective campaign. But that's in a merit-based military.
Which brings up a fact in a feudal medieval society we modern-types like to ignore; noble titles are equivalent to military postings. Some would say the military might came first and the nobility came later. As a matter of course a Duke would have more troops than a Count or Baron and would command the allegiance of several counts and dozens of barons. Dukes were generals by dint of the troops that they commanded. Counts are equivalent to colonels and Barons majors, leaving captain and lieutenant as the non-titled military ranks. As such, the pay scale really only needs to go up to captain.
If you give soldiers 300sp/yr + room& board they make twice the average peasant. Give Lts 500sp/yr and captains 750sp/yr. Factor in bonuses from bounties, looting, plunder, and a bit of graft that goes along with the rank and you've got a nice potential income.
Navies you can pay squat, at least on warships, since the prime money will come in the form of bounties on pirates and the plunder from prize ships. The greater the rank the greater the share. Smuggling becomes a reality in many militaries and navies are the best/worst since they travel so much. Many captains would ignore smuggling as long as it didn't interfere with operations and didn't offend the captain's sensitivities.
IMC I deal with the issues by making Duchies posts assigned by the King with Count being the highest hereditary title. Each Duchy having an associated military border responsibility. Only the King has a Duchy without external borders and a commensurate army to ensure the other dukes don't get too uppity. The Duchy itself was the general's payment, with the general being able to use the revenues as they see fit. Since 99% of the Dukes are military appointees they will maintain the military with the bulk of the proceeds by their nature, with a more than healthy surplus available to put aside for unpleasant days or for the children's inheritance.
Last but not least there is the notion of patriotism and tradition. It's not like our soldiers or police are paid an immense fortune by any means. The medieval equivalents must exist. You've also got to realize the low pay scales in the RAW. Urban peasants make about 300sp/year.
MonsterMash said:
I did point out that in many cases military was equivalent to police and travel was rare. In It doesn't matter in this case if you are pledging your under-paid loyalty to Baron Von Local or the Great Nation of Umerika, it provides justification for joining the military.
And to go back to the low pay, if you gave a soldier room & board + 300sp/year then he is getting paid twice what a peasant does since about 90% of a typical income goes to food and shelter.
If I were a soldier I'd want a general with ranks in expert; more skill points and more likely to have the skills necessary to plan an effective campaign. But that's in a merit-based military.
Which brings up a fact in a feudal medieval society we modern-types like to ignore; noble titles are equivalent to military postings. Some would say the military might came first and the nobility came later. As a matter of course a Duke would have more troops than a Count or Baron and would command the allegiance of several counts and dozens of barons. Dukes were generals by dint of the troops that they commanded. Counts are equivalent to colonels and Barons majors, leaving captain and lieutenant as the non-titled military ranks. As such, the pay scale really only needs to go up to captain.
If you give soldiers 300sp/yr + room& board they make twice the average peasant. Give Lts 500sp/yr and captains 750sp/yr. Factor in bonuses from bounties, looting, plunder, and a bit of graft that goes along with the rank and you've got a nice potential income.
Navies you can pay squat, at least on warships, since the prime money will come in the form of bounties on pirates and the plunder from prize ships. The greater the rank the greater the share. Smuggling becomes a reality in many militaries and navies are the best/worst since they travel so much. Many captains would ignore smuggling as long as it didn't interfere with operations and didn't offend the captain's sensitivities.
IMC I deal with the issues by making Duchies posts assigned by the King with Count being the highest hereditary title. Each Duchy having an associated military border responsibility. Only the King has a Duchy without external borders and a commensurate army to ensure the other dukes don't get too uppity. The Duchy itself was the general's payment, with the general being able to use the revenues as they see fit. Since 99% of the Dukes are military appointees they will maintain the military with the bulk of the proceeds by their nature, with a more than healthy surplus available to put aside for unpleasant days or for the children's inheritance.
Taking into account that D&D economy/prices for many items are more than a little inflated, our group raised NPC's salaries ten fold. In actual play, it worked great, values under that economy made alot more sense. Workers were making 1/gp a day (instead of 1 sp), and your 12th level Admiral would be making 1,008 gp a month. Which is actually works out nicely, if he wants to buy a home or some minor magic items (both would have to be by saving up, etc).
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drnuncheon
Explorer
kigmatzomat said:
Actually, feudally a standing army was rare. People didn't 'join the army' - your lord basically said, "Come on now, we're going to war" and you went. It was only later that you got nations financially capable of supporting a standing army.
Most of the mass combat rules for D&D have added the relevant skill (Tactics, Warcraft, whatever they called it) to the fighter's list.
J
Bear in mind, my campaign is more akin to 15th-17th century structure, with a some modern organizational concepts in place.
Got real sailing ships, cannons, and paladins in plate armor because they're gonna drown anyway.
So the navy represents the entire nation, which is all the humans on the planet.
And the admiral is probably a 12th level fighter or some combo of cool prestige class. Because he likely was a lieutenant during the Formian war. And he certainly lost some friends in the war with the elves. And the elves, being a caste society, definitely have real fighters as their commanders in their warrior caste.
But that's more a taste of how things are in my campaign. The gist is, I'm not in the anarchic, "there's a new kingdom over the next hill" stage of human development.
But the premise remains, the troops need paying and it shouldn't be too low, nor too high.
Got real sailing ships, cannons, and paladins in plate armor because they're gonna drown anyway.
So the navy represents the entire nation, which is all the humans on the planet.
And the admiral is probably a 12th level fighter or some combo of cool prestige class. Because he likely was a lieutenant during the Formian war. And he certainly lost some friends in the war with the elves. And the elves, being a caste society, definitely have real fighters as their commanders in their warrior caste.
But that's more a taste of how things are in my campaign. The gist is, I'm not in the anarchic, "there's a new kingdom over the next hill" stage of human development.
But the premise remains, the troops need paying and it shouldn't be too low, nor too high.
The Shaman
First Post
An added wrinkle...
In my last setting one city, Gullport, called the "City of Swords" or "Swordmeet," was THE place to hire mercenaries. Sure, sell-swords could be found elsewhere, but the prices were generally much higher. For a mercenary in this part of the world it was a trade-off: offer your sword in Swordmeet and get hired quickly but for less pay, or hold out for better pay but find work less often in the hinterlands.
Basic pay was more like three coppers a day, not a silver talent, for a mercenary in Swordmeet, but everyone expected to get a share of the loot or prizes. This made the up-front cost lower by deferring a portion of the payment to the successful completion of the adventure, raid, &c., which meant more mercenaries tended to find work - of course, if some of the men-at-arms or marines died along the way, then the portion of the loot or prizes required to pay for their services was less, and all of them had an incentive to be successful or not get paid well enough to make the life worthwhile.
Just something to think about.
In my last setting one city, Gullport, called the "City of Swords" or "Swordmeet," was THE place to hire mercenaries. Sure, sell-swords could be found elsewhere, but the prices were generally much higher. For a mercenary in this part of the world it was a trade-off: offer your sword in Swordmeet and get hired quickly but for less pay, or hold out for better pay but find work less often in the hinterlands.
Basic pay was more like three coppers a day, not a silver talent, for a mercenary in Swordmeet, but everyone expected to get a share of the loot or prizes. This made the up-front cost lower by deferring a portion of the payment to the successful completion of the adventure, raid, &c., which meant more mercenaries tended to find work - of course, if some of the men-at-arms or marines died along the way, then the portion of the loot or prizes required to pay for their services was less, and all of them had an incentive to be successful or not get paid well enough to make the life worthwhile.
Just something to think about.
Kigmatzomat - nice post on integrating a simple feudal model with modern/Roman ideas about what a professional military is. 
The following is from my high-level game. I found that if you add on officer costs the military costs about 50% more than the base per-soldier cost. Note that that base cost (12gp/month for standard infantryman) includes garrison food, board, new & repaired equipment etc (including horses for cavalry), the actual net pay the soldier get in his pocket each month would be maybe 2gp to spend on beer and (cheap) whores.
"For Trafalgis (NB quality troops are a bit cheaper in Trafalgis than in soft southern countries):
Spearmen, light longspearmen and crossbowmen would be regular infantry; 18 gp/m
heavy pike troops (inc greatswordsmen & halberdiers) and arbalesters would be elite infantry (due to training and equipment); 27gp/m
huskarls (Fighter-Class, recruited from the minor nobility) would be elite foot knights and paid as heavy cavalry (28gp/m each base, 42gp/m inc leaders).
Troops are expected to supply their own basic equipment or have the cost taken from their pay, but if you want particularly good equipment, especially plate armour, this would have to be paid for by you."
The following is from my high-level game. I found that if you add on officer costs the military costs about 50% more than the base per-soldier cost. Note that that base cost (12gp/month for standard infantryman) includes garrison food, board, new & repaired equipment etc (including horses for cavalry), the actual net pay the soldier get in his pocket each month would be maybe 2gp to spend on beer and (cheap) whores.
"For Trafalgis (NB quality troops are a bit cheaper in Trafalgis than in soft southern countries):
Spearmen, light longspearmen and crossbowmen would be regular infantry; 18 gp/m
heavy pike troops (inc greatswordsmen & halberdiers) and arbalesters would be elite infantry (due to training and equipment); 27gp/m
huskarls (Fighter-Class, recruited from the minor nobility) would be elite foot knights and paid as heavy cavalry (28gp/m each base, 42gp/m inc leaders).
Troops are expected to supply their own basic equipment or have the cost taken from their pay, but if you want particularly good equipment, especially plate armour, this would have to be paid for by you."
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