Payn's Ponderings; Jack Reacher vs. Reacher

[payn]

Dang it. Y'all have forced me into this.

Tom Cruise Movies, Separated into Tiers
(Why not ranked? Because there are WAY TOO MANY OF THEM!)

Toppest Tropic Tier

Top Tier- Cruise is a Decent Actor, and in Good Movies, Y'all.
The Outsiders, Risky Business, Legend, The Color of Money, Rain Man, Born on the Fourth Of July, A Few Good Men, The Firm, Jerry Maguire, Eyes Wide Shut, Magnolia, Vanilla Sky, Collateral, Edge of Tomorrow

Second Tier- I like the Action Films, Iceman
Top Gun, Missions Impossible 1 - 6 (although the later installments get ... well good-ish), Minority Report, War of the Worlds, Jack Reacher, Jack Reacher 2

Honorary Cocktail Tier- If you see it, you will watch it

Third Tier- If You're Bored
Taps, All the Right Moves, Days of Thunder, Interview with a Vampire, Valkyrie, Knight and Day, Oblivion, American Made

Bottom Tier- Jump on the Couch and Shout
Endless Love, Losin' It, Far and Away, The Last Samurai (movie hasn't aged well), Lions for Lambs, Rock of Ages (although Cruise was fine), The Mummy (it actually killed a cinematic universe!)



I mean .... that's quite a body of work. If anything, I'd say the biggest disappointment is that after his 80s output, he settled into taking very few chances. But when he does (like Magnolia or Collateral) he can still knock it out of the park.


Plus Cocktail is the greatest movie of all time.

Wait, Edge of Tomorrow is top tier but Jack Reacher is second tier. All of this is entirely suspect.

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Wait, Edge of Tomorrow is top tier but Jack Reacher is second tier. All of this is entirely suspect.

I put all of the good action movies in the second tier. I put Edge of Tomorrow in the top tier because it's a genuinely good movie, not just a good action movie. But that's personal preference on my part; it's not "Should Jack Reacher" be first tier, it's should All You Need is Kill be second tier.

 

[payn]

I put all of the good action movies in the second tier. I put Edge of Tomorrow in the top tier because it's a genuinely good movie, not just a good action movie. But that's personal preference on my part; it's not "Should Jack Reacher" be first tier, it's should All You Need is Kill be second tier.

The play is under review

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The play is under review

 

[Ryujin]

As opposed to the very good Karl Urban version, in which he does his best to disappear into the character, despite it being genre fare.

Now there's an actor (and/or director) who puts the source material over ego. Never saw his face, like in the comics, except in silhouette.

 

[GreyLord]

Oh, Dredd was so good!

I didn't really like it. NOT Campy enough and far too serious and dark. No satire.

Stallone's version didn't really follow the comics either, but Stallone at least has the chin for it. He should have worn the helmet more though. It was at least somewhat campy.

Neither is really Judge Dredd, but at least the first one wasn't so dark and serious that you wonder if you were watching Dark City or something based in a Hive World in Warhammer (though even Warhammer has camp or used to) or Necromunda instead.

And the satire was missing entirely with both...really. I suppose one could somewhat see a little satire in the second, though there was probably even more satire with Stallone's Judge Dredd as well.

I just don't get why people think Dredd was actually a good Judge Dredd movie.

 

[Mannahnin]

I just don't get why people think Dredd was actually a good Judge Dredd movie.

Because it was a good movie, the main character was faithful to the source, and it did have satire and black humor.

It wasn't as over the top as the 2000AD originals, but a lot of that humor hasn't really aged well anyway.

 

[GreyLord]

Because it was a good movie, the main character was faithful to the source, and it did have satire and black humor.

It wasn't as over the top as the 2000AD originals, but a lot of that humor hasn't really aged well anyway.

It probably isn't a good humor for our modern times, but it was a type of humor that Dredd simply did not reflect. It is really what I would consider...Camp...or what was considered camp in the past. It was the antithesis of (the then) culture, a satire on society and a reflection against what society would have us be.

The Judge Dredd comics were full of Camp, defying what many would consider good taste and good comics even back then (though strongly appealing in it's own way to the other portions of society that were out of favor). It was also commentary on a society full of elitism and tradition.

The movie Dredd is basically the opposite of that from what I see. Not only is it not Camp, it seems to be giving the exact opposite message of what the comics did.

Judge Dredd at least had the SOME Camp to it, even if it wasn't as full of Camp as the comics and really didn't follow the comics or replicate them...at all.

 

[Mannahnin]

Dredd wasn't campy, but it was satirical and dystopian. It was full of black humor about the excesses of Law & Order punitive criminal justice culture taken to the extreme. But you're right that it played it straight enough that viewers with authoritarian leanings could probably squint past the satire and take it largely at face value.

 

[payn]

Dredd wasn't campy, but it was satirical and dystopian. It was full of black humor about the excesses of Law & Order punitive criminal justice culture taken to the extreme. But you're right that it played it straight enough that viewers with authoritarian leanings could probably squint past the satire and take it largely at face value.

It was like a slice of tasty Verhoeven style film making.

 

[Mannahnin]

It was like a slice of tasty Verhoeven style film making.

Eh. Starship Troopers was much campier. I liked Dredd better.

 

[payn]

Eh. Starship Troopers was much campier. I liked Dredd better.

I was speaking to the dark humor and satire being so subtle that if you blink during all the violence and action you miss it.

 

[GreyLord]

Eh. Starship Troopers was much campier. I liked Dredd better.

I didn't really care for Starship Troopers, BUT...

Ironically...

I'd say Dredd captured the feel of the Starship Troopers book in how it portrayed it's seriousness...

While Starship Troopers actually was more of the type of feel I think would have been appropriate for a Judge Dredd film.

It's not really how it was made, but the FEEL or the replication of that type of style is more in line with what I'd see from Judge Dredd rather than what Dredd was.

And the style of Dredd is actually more in line with what I'd have thought a Starship Troopers movie based on the book would be like.

 

[Zaukrie]

On the topic of Reacher......there is little about the tv show (so far, I think we are three in) that is super original. But, I do love the female officer and her attitude. I'm enjoying it for what it is.

 

[payn]

On the topic of Reacher......there is little about the tv show (so far, I think we are three in) that is super original. But, I do love the female officer and her attitude. I'm enjoying it for what it is.

There is a certain brand of typecast going on in the series that was absent in the film. Reacher being a boy scout and Roscoe being the southern belle cop. Frankly, I liked the film's approach better, where it was less a factor of their identity. Reacher (cruise) and Rodin (Pike) just felt like real people that were formed by their experiences.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

But the end did feel like a video game.

 

[payn]

But the end did feel like a video game.

For the film? I can see that. Most of the series felt that way though.

 

[Ryujin]

It probably isn't a good humor for our modern times, but it was a type of humor that Dredd simply did not reflect. It is really what I would consider...Camp...or what was considered camp in the past. It was the antithesis of (the then) culture, a satire on society and a reflection against what society would have us be.

The Judge Dredd comics were full of Camp, defying what many would consider good taste and good comics even back then (though strongly appealing in it's own way to the other portions of society that were out of favor). It was also commentary on a society full of elitism and tradition.

The movie Dredd is basically the opposite of that from what I see. Not only is it not Camp, it seems to be giving the exact opposite message of what the comics did.

Judge Dredd at least had the SOME Camp to it, even if it wasn't as full of Camp as the comics and really didn't follow the comics or replicate them...at all.

If recyc on aisle 4 and deadpan, "Do you need a social worker" isn't social satire, then I don't know what is.

 

[Ryujin]

Dredd wasn't campy, but it was satirical and dystopian. It was full of black humor about the excesses of Law & Order punitive criminal justice culture taken to the extreme. But you're right that it played it straight enough that viewers with authoritarian leanings could probably squint past the satire and take it largely at face value.

I'll agree that it skated pretty close to Poe's Law, but I think that the subtle satire was obvious enough to avoid it. If you want to see it in full force then watch the 2014 film "Dark Dungeons", based on a Chick Tract of the same name. Made by gamers but played absolutely straight, to stay within the licensing. It's equally laughed at by people like me, and held up as Gospel by fundies.

 

[MarkB]

The movie that best captured the humour and satire of the Judge Dredd setting was Demolition Man. Which just makes it ironic that Stallone's Judge Dredd failed to do so.