PC Races

[Alzrius]

What would I want in a book of Pathfinder PC races?

I'd want a book that takes race ideas that seem too powerful, too outlandish, or are otherwise unsuited for play (at least in comparison to the standard races) and is able to adjust those ideas - both mechanically and thematically - into something that's balanced against elves, gnomes, etc.

Alluria Publishing's Remarkable Races Compendium did a great job of this. For example, do you want to play an undead creature at 1st level? Well, that might not be doable, but what about an obitu, a skeleton that's a living creature? That's the sort of thinking outside the box that's made of win and awesome-sauce (as they say on the internet).

Take a concept that doesn't fit, and then tweak it and twist it until it does, while still keeping the original idea recognizable. How can I play a race that's a sentient swarm of insects? What about a race of possessors (insect-like parasites maybe, or perhaps incorporeal creatures) that can move between host bodies frequently?

That's the book I'd like to see.

 

[mxyzplk]

Generally, I'd never buy a race book.

The problem is that race books often have a variety of problems.

1. Intense cheese. Illumians anyone? Poor design ends up making the new races "better" for certain popular roles. I generally disallowed all the 3.5e race books for that reason.

2. Where'd they come from? Usually I have some campaign world I'm using and it's not tolerant of a brand new race no one's ever seen before showing up in it. (naturally a race book for a specific new setting that does incorporate them is OK.)

So the only kind of generic race book I'd buy is one that used established races (lizardman as a PC, that kind of thing) and was well balanced. But this tends to be boring-ish, and therefore requires a good bit of good flavor work etc. in it - which then runs the risk of being too specific to a campaign world other than the one I'm using.

Best possible world is a race book for a specific game world that incorporates those races and therefore the fluff can dovetail... Genasi for Al-Qadim, etc.

 

[Set]

What would I want in a book of Pathfinder PC races?

I'd want a book that takes race ideas that seem too powerful, too outlandish, or are otherwise unsuited for play (at least in comparison to the standard races) and is able to adjust those ideas - both mechanically and thematically - into something that's balanced against elves, gnomes, etc.

Hell yes. I'd like to see not just some *new* races, but guidelines for how to play a mechanically 'weak' race like kobold or goblin, alongside mechanically 'neutral' races like human or dwarf, alongside mechanically 'strong' races like some sort of PC undead or dark elf or serpentfolk.

And I'd prefer for it to be done without racial levels or LA, perhaps in a manner similar to how the Raptoran starts out with wings that just allow them to survive a fall, and doesn't gain the ability to significantly fly until 5 HD, when a Wizard would be gaining the fly spell anyway.

IMO, off-setting certain abilities until certain HD thresholds are met, and introducing some as 'racial feats' that allow a PC to simply not develop certain racial characteristics if they don't want to, work better than level adjustment or racial levels that put the character mechanically behind other party members (which, in the case of say, the hobgoblin, can be painful, being a full level behind everyone else because you started with a +2 to Dex *and a +2 to Con, you horrible munchkin, you!).

Using racial feats, or option developments at certain HD thresholds (Alternate Race Features? The new way to make an Aquatic Elf or a Wild Elf?), a serpentfolk sorcerer who never wants to bite anyone, can choose to never develop his poisonous bite, forever having weaker venom than the 'generic' serpentman. One who very much wants to develop his venom can go a step further and have stronger-than-average venom. Each race becomes a toolkit, with different options, just as a Warforged can have a body of mithral, adamantine, darkwood or silver, or a Shifter could be a beasthide or a swiftclaw or whatever. More options = good, and helps to make races more accessible to a greater variety of options, instead of having a particular race pigeonholed into a very limited set of class choices, based on their racial abilities, which are inflexible and carved in stone.

Alternate Race Features. Gosh, I'd love to see that. Every race becomes just a touch more variable, without having to stat up High Elves, Wood Elves, Wild Elves, Grugach, Aquatic Elves and Dark Elves as different 'sub-species.' Instead, some elves swap out sword and bow training for spear and bow training (wood elves) or spear and net training (aquatic elves).

Duergar and Svirfneblin and whatnot just become alternate-capable tweaks on Dwarves and Gnomes, with some guidelines for how to tweak your own, if you want ice-castle-dwelling dwarves living on the Crown of the World, whose communities ride glaciers down the mountains or mysterious jungle-dwelling gnomes who wear bright feathers and use poisoned missiles from high in the treetops to discourage predators from climbing up to their suspended villages, where they sleep hanging in pods attached to vines, so that nothing that can't fly can get to them.

 

[Votan]

A balanced and playable vampire template or race would be a delightful surprise. Very challenging to do but vampires (or soemthing close like a half-vampire) are popular chocies in people's imaginations and it'd be pleasant to make it easy to say "yes" to the request to play one.

Unlikely, I know . . .

 

[Burn_Boy]

Alternate Race Features. Gosh, I'd love to see that. Every race becomes just a touch more variable, without having to stat up High Elves, Wood Elves, Wild Elves, Grugach, Aquatic Elves and Dark Elves as different 'sub-species.' Instead, some elves swap out sword and bow training for spear and bow training (wood elves) or spear and net training (aquatic elves).

I'm right behind you there Set. However, if you group/DM is flexible enough and you play with the Pathfinder RPG traits, taking the social trait "Adopted" you can swap out certain abilities for others. Generally it's just used for stuff like a human being raised by dwarves and therefore, being able to take weapons with the name Dwarven in them as martial weapons and such.

 

[Chronologist]

Votan, I'm right behind you. However, I think vampires are actually pretty easy to make into a balanced race. Take away most of their supernatural abilities, but give them the light blindness like Drow and a penalty to saves against good-aligned divine spells or something. +2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Con.

To the topic at hand, I'd like a race book that had tongue-in-cheek replicas of Eberron races, and several from the monster manuals (cough Changelings cough). I'd also like it to include several racial feats for each race, and a number of templates based around energy and planar types.

 

[Set]

To the topic at hand, I'd like a race book that had tongue-in-cheek replicas of Eberron races, and several from the monster manuals (cough Changelings cough).

[tangent regarding converting Eberron races to Pathfinder]
Over at the Paizo boards, there are a plethora of threads on porting races like the Warforged over. One particularly fun one deals not with the mechanics, but with the flavor text, trying to find places where a shapechanging race, or a 'living construct' race, would fit into the setting and not look like a cheap import from another setting, clumsily forced where it doesn't belong.

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboard...bberonRacesInGolarion&page=1&source=search#46

Solutions for 'Changelings' included having them be reptilian in their true form, and a product of Serpentfolk manipulations, to create a perfect infiltrator race, or actual 'changeling children' born to human parents, but warped by fey forces and often outcast and considered cuckoos in the nest, or soulless replacements of stolen children, etc.

Warforged options would include Qadiran 'brass men,' clockwork vessels that are animated by elemental forces / genie magics, or mechanical men from Numeria (or the world of Aballon), or Runelord creations, or dwarven 'Forgeborn,' who must burn wood and other fuels as sustenance in their furnace bellies to remain functional.

Mechanically, most of the races would probably work fine as is, with a bump up to a net +2 racial attribute modifier. (I'd do +2 Str for the construct-men, and +2 to one physical ability, chosen in the morning, for a natural changeling.) [/tangent]

 

[Qwillion]

Ironborn of Questhaven (Construct) Free Preview HERE

Wyrd of Questhaven (Ogre Magi/Elf)

Restless Souls (Template for the Dead)

In the Company of Giants (March 1st)


I would like to do more of the half-breeds, and perhaps a vampire or dhampire race as well.

 

[Sigurd]

I think balance reqs can be unrealistic

I have to say sometimes a player race is unbalanced and that's ok. I'm struck by the number of people who say: "I want to see a no LA version of Godzilla."


Specifically I've seen this in regards to Fey races and to some extent Vampires. Both of these should be potentially wet your pants scary. Watered down versions that some how are supposed to 'get along' with the rest of the party can be a mistake.
Its popular right now to have a lot of sympathy for Vampires. Angel, Buffy, Twilight etc... would have you believe they are misunderstood males that have finally lived long enough to be emotionally mature. Delicious bad boys that may suck your blood but at least they're up front about it.

I don't think you should always water down 'races'. Players get this expectation that they will always be the most dangerous critter on the block - sometimes this just aint so.

Mostly I like pathfinder's current non monster player characters state because it emphasizes the dominant situation in the game world. Every second party I've seen has a Drizzt like character who is the single exception to an otherwise harsh or evil worldview. I expect players to live in the realm of the exceptional but sometimes it is still a bit much.


Sigurd

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

With the counter-argument being that that's your view, and maybe other people don't want scary fey and undead.