PCGen sellout

[Luke]

Hollywood:

Luke:
I appreciate your weighing in on this. Since it's been at least six months since I looked at either RPM or Twin Rose CS, I haven't been up on current status for RPM. I also appreciate the clarification on your lack of upgrade charge, since I couldn't find the definitive answer to that on your site this morning. Most softwares do not have free upgrades for their major version number changes, and I commend you for doing it, in an age where it's non-standard.

No problem. Not weighing in, just clarifying some RPM points.

On my website: 4th menu option is "Register RPM", and line 6 on that page under "Benefits of registering" is "Free updates of RolePlayingMaster".
I take your point, however, since I've answered about 4 e-mails from current RPM users asking me if they needed to pay to upgrade to RPM 3.0 !!! I've also spent a fair bit of "internet phone time" showing big-time RPM fans just how much they can actually do with the program. I really sell myself short on advertising RPM's capabilities . Thankfully, somebody massively keen on it is putting together a whole bunch of tutorials for it, whilst I continue coding

Thanks for frank words on DMF, Todd. Perhaps Chris (TwinRose) has something to say about making money from RPG software? I think you'll find that we all either start out, or end up, doing it for the love of it.
In the end, it appears that even PCGen are going to see quality benefits in moving to a cost-model.
In the final analysis, I'd suggest that WotC were saved by community doing it for the love of it. PCGen saves ETools? If so, it was the existence of a dedicated group doing it for love that saved the failed commercial attempt.
Even Wizards couldn't make money from RPG software ??? Ironies abound, and we live in interesting times...

Regards,

 

[Mynex]

I honestly have never seen a character generation house rule anywhere that PCGen cannot currently handle, outside of extra ability scores or attributes, and in the near future even those will be taken into account.

Henry,

Actually, this can be done now, and has been enabled for a few months now. There is no editor (yet, its coming!) to do it easily, but in the follwing folder (shown below), you can add/remove stats and define what they do/how they act to your heart's content. I know, I use 2 addititional stats in my campaign world, and have been for a long time (1st as equipemt, now as real stats)...

go to;
>pcgen folder name</system/gameModes/DnD/statsandchecks.lst

There is even _some_ documentation on it, and we're working on some more as time progresses.

 

[TheAuldGrump]

Some open community discussion would not have gone astray. In fact, it would have been very appropriate. I also wouldn't buy a "Wizard's made us keep it secret" line. Wizard's were coming from nowhere with their ETools PR disaster (shoddy program, no funds to fix, no option for support), and PCGen held all the cards.

Wizards played this one very, very well...

Umm, the folks at CMP were almost certainly required to sign a nondisclosure agreement. If so they most definetly had to keep it secret, or face penalties - which could very well include losing access to the IP material. Depending on the wording of the agreement it could have led to considerably more.

As for playing cards, I think they both played their hands well. Those folks who purchased E-Tools may finally have a worthwhile program, while we PCGen users will see the return of the IP material.

It will be interesting to see if the amount of OGL material being made available for PCGen decreases, or as I suspect, it increases as the user base increases and the lst editors become more functional. PCGen does not rely solely on the work of the artists currently known as Code Monkey. Only the WoTC OP material is being solely only by CMP.

I have heard a lot of complaints that the Splatbook material should have remained free. Well, I must admit I like free, but I am sure that WoTC will want compensation for their material, and now that they are under contract so will CMP.

There also seems to be a fear that PCGen's lst files will suddenly stop working. I have my doubts about that, I suspect that PCGen will, over the course of this next year, finish nailing down their data format and the material will continue to function just fine. Just make sure you make backups of any purchased lst files so if you suffer a hardware failure or simply purchase a new computer you do not lose that data.

The Auld Grump, for once feeling optimistic....

 

[jujutsunerd]

If so, why that horrible Java language?)

I'm going to stay out of this debate except for this.
The choice of programming language is a 'religious' decision. Debating about it will generate a lot of heat but very little light, and noone's opinion is likely to change.

For the record: I feel that with Java available, I can see absolutely *no* reason for any sentient being to use the abomination that is C++. (C is ok, for real-time low-level stuff.)

/Jonas

 

[D'karr]

Chill out Francis.

PCGen is a sellout!!!

Worse yet, PCGen is dead!!!

CMP is an evil empire!!!

E-Tools has won!!!!

Oh my goodness, I have to pay for stuff...

Java is not coffee!!!

If I was coding I'd do it in ADA!!!

CMP can't blah, blah, blah...

WotC doesn't blah, blah, blah...

Luke's RPM blah, blah, blah...

Twin Rose is blah, blah, blah...

Eric Noah is a half-fiend love child!!!

The sky is falling!!!!



The is a name for this, the chicken little syndrome.


BTW the half-fiend love child song was hilarious.

 

[Morik]

I'm not sure why there will be two programms basicly doing the same: E-Tools AND PCGen are IMO doing the same thing while I like PCGen a lot more (maybe because I used it before E-Tools had come out).

There is my second problem. I bought E-Tools and I'm using PCGen. What are my options here? Sureley I have to stick to one programm otherwise supporting two Charakter-Generating programms at the same time doesn't make any sense to me.

And... what happens if E-Tools will have far more customers than PCGen in the furture or vice versa? Will one programm be "shut down" then?

Now, CMP is a company with all views on how to make profit (and rightly so). I'm not sure of this but my guess is that they will close down one programm that is not generating enough sales for the effort done by the employees.

Yeah, it's a company... They're employees not programmers only.

I hope that PCGen will have the better start. I like the programm and I had never any problems with it (refering to the Java Discussion).

In fact PCGen were a wonderful programm with all the splat-books in it (it is very good without them too). And the fact that all the material will be back makes me smile. And the costs? Well, one have to wait and see. I will buy the data files for sure (not for any price though but a reasonable fee is okay for me).

I had dreamed about WOTc employees and PCGen developers would came together and settle on good terms and now exactly that had happend.

I congratulate WOTc too but in a positive way. Remember TSR? That was a tough company. WOTc is much softer and friendlier, don't you think? (Hope you will not punch me too hard for my last statement ;-) )

 

[Brown Jenkin]

I congratulate WOTc too but in a positive way. Remember TSR? That was a tough company. WOTc is much softer and friendlier, don't you think? (Hope you will not punch me too hard for my last statement ;-) )

That was true until they were bought by Ha$bro and Peter Atkinson left.

 

[smetzger]

The most likely scenario for a paid supplement in RPM will be if people request me to do an import for PCGen lst files, ,so you can import stuff you bought from CMP

Yes, I see that as a very real possibility for all 3rd party D&D software creators. Unfortunately I just learned, from CMP's boards, that the splatbook update file for E-Tools and PCGen will be in different formats. The PCGen format will continue to be in the .lst format while the E-Tools update format will be in Access.

I was hoping that they would be the same format for a couple of reasons:
1) This would most likely become the defacto standard for distributing files since two of the largest user base programs use it.
2) It would likely be a suitable format for other people to use because it does meet the needs of two different programs.

But alas, it looks like we will not have a standard. Some people will decide the Access db is easier for them to use and some will fine the .lst file easier to use and things will become further separated and efforts will be duplicated.

 

[Mynex]

Yes, I see that as a very real possibility for all 3rd party D&D software creators. Unfortunately I just learned, from CMP's boards, that the splatbook update file for E-Tools and PCGen will be in different formats. The PCGen format will continue to be in the .lst format while the E-Tools update format will be in Access.

I was hoping that they would be the same format for a couple of reasons:
1) This would most likely become the defacto standard for distributing files since two of the largest user base programs use it.
2) It would likely be a suitable format for other people to use because it does meet the needs of two different programs.

But alas, it looks like we will not have a standard. Some people will decide the Access db is easier for them to use and some will fine the .lst file easier to use and things will become further separated and efforts will be duplicated.

Scott,

Please report things like this a bit more accurately (and remember, I come here as well. )...

Yes, for now, they will remain 2 seperate formats. Why? Because swapping both programs to the same format at once is a logistical nightmare (not to mention WAY overly ambitious at this stage)... e-Tools needs some TLC before any drastic changes to it's format is even conceivable.

There are numerous threads where we have stated that we are looking at the possibility of going XML, but haven't decided yet, we have more research to do first. Not to mention that PCGen has been planned to switch t XML for a while now, and that is slowly coming to be more of a reality (the XML guys are gelling things up)...

So it's not a 'No it's not going to happen period' thing... it's a 'Give us a chance to evaluate everything first' thing.

 

[BarakO]

Hollywood:

outside of extra ability scores or attributes, and in the near future even those will be taken into account. Also, PCgen has LST

Umm...

*whispers*

You can have extra stats...

I run with seven (the seveth being luck).