PCs hoarding Daily Powers

[Goonalan]

Just a note, a question really- have other DMs had problems with this? Do other players do this?

My six PCs finish every day (mostly) with half of their Daily Powers unspent, even when I throw the kitchen sink at them. They just seem to not want to spend them at all... the what if factor scares them into hoarding them.

Example

At present the PCs have completed 6 encounters so far today, probably good for another 3 before they'll need to take an extended rest.

They've used 50% of their total Healing Surges, although one or two of them have only a couple left- hence max three more fights left.

I worked out last night that they had used only 16% of their total available (combat orientated) daily powers.

Six players, four of whom have not used a daily at all yet.

And they've been in some tough fights, real nasty, they were moaning about a huge fracas with a bunch of nasty foulspawn followed by a toe-to-toe with a ogre warhulk and medusa- one of them managing only to save vs petrify with a re-roll power, at one point all but one of the PCs on the track to Petrified.

Fights that would have taken much less time to play out, and would have been much easier to conclude- leaving more time to explore, or RP... but no, they continue to hoard them.

I pointed this out to them after the session, had one reply so far from the Wiz stating yes- more or less every day (between extended rests) he finishes with 50% of his Daily Powers unused. He just thinks that something bad (worse) is going to come along... and so waits a while longer.

So, any views on this- I really can't make the fights any harder, I'm throwing level 15+ encounters at a level 10-11 party (that's not a problem by the way- they're loving it).

Others experiencing this?

Players POV?

Cheers PDR

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Yes.

Unless a battle is really nasty, players don't always know they need to use their daily powers. It takes experience and levels to fix this (in the latter case, if you have two or three daily powers, using one up isn't so hard).

I find my players always want to stop adventuring after they've used their dailies. Not that I can blame them!

 

[ExploderWizard]

Let them hoard away. Eventually, a character will get killed and you can point and laugh. Thats like dying with money in the bank.

 

[wedgeski]

Early-on in my 4E DM'ing career I thought that my players were using Dailies too freely, but that was only because I knew what was around the corner. These days, I think my guys use a Daily power when it has the potential to be used to its fullest: lots of single-target damage against an obviously powerful foe, or with multiple targets and damage potential sky-high for area effects.

I haven't in any way encouraged this, it's just the way they roll, and I think, unless you *are* forewarned that something really nasty is around the corner and you're not going to be able to rest before it arrives, my players simply believe that a Daily used to its fullest is never wasted.

As a DM, I'm always alert to situations where I've operated under certain assumptions (such as what the party strength will be when they arrive at an encounter) that are going to be frustrated. I'm usually tempted to improvise new opportunities for dealing damage in the environment if the party arrives at a seriously difficult fight with few or no Dailies in the bank. These will never be as potent as an actual Daily Power, but they will give the PC's a couple of options during the fight, which is more important than how much damage they actually do.

 

[Runestar]

It is the old "Saving for a rainy day which never comes" mentality. Live with it.

 

[Goonalan]

It is the old "Saving for a rainy day which never comes" mentality. Live with it.

Oh I am session 63 already of the campaign, I obviously knew it was happening and I guess I ust thought it was normal... then a week or so I bump into a guy I used to game with- who doesn't do 4th edition, and it turns out he does now play 4e.

Conversation ensues, and he's a bit of a planner (we're both lecturers- it pays to plan), anyway I ask about hoarding of dailys and he was- 'what do you mean?' I explain and he looks suitably confused.

States that he's been playing for 6 months with the same guys, they play 6-8 encounters between extended rests and they plan to use at least one Daily per encounter (not one each), more likely they blow a couple, even on encounters where they're taking care of business (although not the real easy stuff).

He went on to say that-

1. Saves resources- Healing Surges usually as Monsters get crocked quicker = less damage done.
2. Saves time- they get through at least 4 and mostly 5-6 combat/encounters in a four hour session.
3. Lastly, they get to see more often their daily powers in action- which makes them giggle a lot.

So, yeah, I'm living with it...

Do other players have similar plans/ideas?

Cheers PDR

 

[Goonalan]

As a DM, I'm always alert to situations where I've operated under certain assumptions (such as what the party strength will be when they arrive at an encounter) that are going to be frustrated. I'm usually tempted to improvise new opportunities for dealing damage in the environment if the party arrives at a seriously difficult fight with few or no Dailies in the bank. These will never be as potent as an actual Daily Power, but they will give the PC's a couple of options during the fight, which is more important than how much damage they actually do.

I know what you're saying, and I'm adept at twisting the outcome to side with the PCs when I think I may have lead them astray, or I've messed up.

However I went through the PCs tokens last night (Maptools) and there are some Daily Powers that I have never seen in action, that I think the PCs have never tried, okay a couple could be new powers but some are older level stuff.

The downside from my POV is sometimes the PCs get through (for example) five combat encounters (and lots of RP/discovery) having used maybe 3 Daily Powers between the lot of them...

I roll on my BIG BAD GUY, usually a SOLO or ELITE with a few/plenty of friends and...

Eight daily Powers later- dead as a dodo.

Which is great except the PCs sometimes spend two hours on one combat- (maptools and skype issues and real lives going on- crying children etc.) in which they fight a fairly equal opposition, and then cream the bad guy in a little over thirty minutes.

The PCs never run out of Daily Powers, as I say they mostly end with 50% of them unused.

Cheers PDR

 

[Kingreaper]

Perhaps if you gave them some time sensitive combats? ie. someone is blocking the corridor ahead of them, and if they don't get past these guys FAST they won't manage it at all.
They might be more willing to spend the dailies to speed it up?

 

[Blackbrrd]

If you want encounters to be concluded faster from using dailies, have the encounters have a kind of time limit.

- For instance the monsters are defending the only exit from a room filling with water.

- Let them know additional troops are on the way so if they don't finish these mobs they are going to fight two full encounters at the same time.

 

[malraux]

I pointed this out to them after the session, had one reply so far from the Wiz stating yes- more or less every day (between extended rests) he finishes with 50% of his Daily Powers unused. He just thinks that something bad (worse) is going to come along... and so waits a while longer.

I certainly haven't seen this in the groups that I DM or play in. That said, at least for the wizard, daily powers are surprisingly situational. If it's not a good time for the power, then there's no reason at all to use a daily.