PCs lack of respect for the 'caste' system of your typical fantasy society

[ninthcouncil]

My PC is not Bob the local commoner... he's Arthas, mighty slayer of trolls, ogres, evil wizards, Beholders and Dragons. And he's supposed to bow and scrape before some petty lord?

The petty lord is vassal to lords greater than him, all the way up to the king who, depending on the campaign world, may be regarded as deriving his authority from god(s). By questioning the authority of Baron Littlefief, your PC is questioning the entire structure of authority in the society. If he played your cards a little smarter, he might end up getting invited to join the ruling class. As it is, he should prepare to be stomped. He is a threat.

 

[Codragon]

Medieval Europe != D&D

I agree with Tsyr and Henry.

The presence of magic, monsters, demi-humans, and humanoids makes it difficult, if not impossible, to construct an accurate model of Medieval Europe in a standard D&D world.

A caste system may exist, but how it is enforced and who it is enforced upon will be totally different in D&D as compared to Medieval Europe.

 

[ninthcouncil]

Adventurers are the revolutionaries

Aargh! Don't post while I'm writing!

Adventurers are rarely revolutionaries - that requires some sort of agenda. How many adventuring parties have any sort of coherent yet radical social and political action platform

"You can't expect to wield supreme executive power just because some watery tart threw a sword at you!"

 

[wolff96]

Good Point, Bad Example

Think of Lan saying "yes m'lord" and bowing and scraping to ANYONE. He shows respect for the Amyrlin, and that's it.

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that's a horrible example.

You're talking about a king. Granted he doesn't claim the throne to lost Melkier, but half the world seems to know who he is anyway. Who in the &*%$ SHOULD he bow and scrape to?

Now Rand is your perfect textbook adventurer. Just because he's nearly deity level in magical power, he thinks he can overturn royaltly, conquer nations, and do as he sees fit. If that doesn't have "typical D&D adventurer" written all over it, I don't know what would...

 

[MasterOfHeaven]

The petty lord is vassal to lords greater than him, all the way up to the king who, depending on the campaign world, may be regarded as deriving his authority from god(s). By questioning the authority of Baron Littlefief, your PC is questioning the entire structure of authority in the society. If he played your cards a little smarter, he might end up getting invited to join the ruling class. As it is, he should prepare to be stomped. He is a threat.

Or, he'll effect the removal and replacement of Baron Littlefie (and his superiors, if they too are also corrupt) with a more just lord. Robin Hood, a classic adventurer if there ever was one, did exactly that.

 

[Aaron L]

Good point about Lan, I didn't think. And even better point about Rand. How many adventurers develop a messiah complex, I wonder?

And ninthcouncil, I think most adventurers have an agenda. They have an agenda to gain power, wealth, and fame (or infamy), so they no longer have to defer to Chuckles the local noble. Perhaps Lawful Good adventurers accept the social order and adventure to better thier world and nation, but most I would say are out for themselves (not to say they are against helping others along the way!)

 

[el-remmen]

A good example might be Gandalf, who despite his great power and mysterious origins among the Valar - was always deferential to the kings and authorities of Middle-Earth. Yes, he did manipulate them when he could to get what he wanted - but he still respected the authority of people like Theoden and Denethor - Hell, he was even showed proper respect to hobbits and dwarves. . .

 

[Henry]

...If he played your cards a little smarter, he might end up getting invited to join the ruling class. As it is, he should prepare to be stomped. He is a threat.

If, on the other hand, the PC has in the past performed several important services for the king, and the king knows demonstrably that the PC has more wealth and power than the petty lord, then the king may well side with the PC over the petty lord. After all, who is going to be more valuable to him in the future - a petty lord who has land (by his sufferage) but barely two coppers to scrape together, or the heroic PC who has already proven his worthiness?

But I agree - if a PC played within the political scene, he could be sufficiently upwardly mobile enough in the scene directly - but the whole society would still likely be predicated on prestige and power making you mobile, not birthright. Birthright is something you have when no one below you is powerful enough to overthrow the order of things.

 

[Qlippoth]

Since someone's brought up LotR...

"'There now, Mister, that'll do. It's the Chief's orders that you're to come along quiet. We're going to take you to Bywater and hand you over to the Chief's Men; and when he deals with your case you can have your say. But if you don't want to stay in the Lockholes any longer than you need, I should cut the say short, if I was you.'

To the discomfiture of the Shirriffs Frodo and his companions all roared with laughter."

'Course, you might say that Frodo, Merry, & Pippin were of the Shire's aristocracy, but...

 

[drothgery]

Re: Good Point, Bad Example

I agree with the point you're trying to make, but that's a horrible example.

You're talking about a king. Granted he doesn't claim the throne to lost Melkier, but half the world seems to know who he is anyway. Who in the &*%$ SHOULD he bow and scrape to?

Now Rand is your perfect textbook adventurer. Just because he's nearly deity level in magical power, he thinks he can overturn royaltly, conquer nations, and do as he sees fit. If that doesn't have "typical D&D adventurer" written all over it, I don't know what would...

And we'd note as an aside that other characters who are nearly as powerful as Rand (exceptin the top-level minions of the Dark One) don't think they can overturn royalty and such. Elayne has political power because she is royalty. Egwene has political power because she's Amyrlin. And Nynaeve, despite being somewhat more adept in things arcane than either of them, has virtually no political power in her own right, though she has some influence on her friends.