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PC's lost in Sunless Citadel-advice requested!

Vanye

Explorer
Well, after 6 weeks, my PC's finally got to the final section of the Sunless Citadel. There were 6 of them, all 2nd level, vs Belak, Sharwyn, Sir Braford, Durnn the hobgoblin chief, and Grenl the goblin cleric. The PC's had: 1 human paladin, 1 ghostwise halfling ranger, 1 half elven roge, one human monk (brother to the paladin), one half elven fighter, and a dwarven cleric.

I changed the spell selections for Sharwyn and Belak, because the PC's had already encountered them once and retreated, so they were better prepared for combat (Sharwyn with a sleep and Color spray instead of the poorly chosen magic missile the module used; Belak's spell selection was set for summon swarm, summon natures ally, and two spells from Magic of Faerun:Blinding Spittle (touch attack at -4 to blind an opponent) and Handfire (basically 1d4 +1/lvl damage, for 4 successful attacks, as Chill Touch)).

The PC's went down hard, mostly due to some very poor rolling and some high ACs (Durnn was boosted by a Barkskin spell from Belak) on their opponents, but at the end of the fight the only ones standing were Belak and his supplicants.

I guess all of that is really irrelevant to my question, however: do Gulthias Tree supplicants gain XP? Since Belak and his allies won, they earned 3600 XP (6pc's @ cr 2 each==6x600xp). If the supplicants do get XP, then Belak only gets 720 XP; if they don't, he gets 1200 xp. Not enough for him to go up a level, but it gives him some more XP to burn on some potions, which will be useful for him and the supplicants. Has anyone else had to deal with this in their campaigns? The surviving characters have made it clear to me that they plan on going back to try and rescue their comrades (unaware that two of them will become supplicants themselves, while the third will become mulch), so I kind of need ot figure out what options are available to Belak when they come back....
 

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Vanye said:
Well, after 6 weeks, my PC's finally got to the final section of the Sunless Citadel. There were 6 of them, all 2nd level, vs Belak, Sharwyn, Sir Braford, Durnn the hobgoblin chief, and Grenl the goblin cleric. The PC's had: 1 human paladin, 1 ghostwise halfling ranger, 1 half elven roge, one human monk (brother to the paladin), one half elven fighter, and a dwarven cleric.

Durrn and Grenl weren't part of the original encounter. Adding them significantly increased the EL of the final encounter.

I also thought Belak's original spell selection was pretty lame, but changing both he and Sharwyn to all combat oriented spells also increases the encounter EL.

Were any twig blights also part of the encounter?


The PC's went down hard, mostly due to some very poor rolling

Sleep and color spray can be devistating to a low-level party. How many failed their saves on one of these?

:( Now Granted your group had 6 PCs not 4. But the group was skewed heavily towards combat with only one magic user (cleric) and no wizard/sorcereror.


The surviving characters have made it clear to me that they plan on going back to try and rescue their comrades (unaware that two of them will become supplicants themselves, while the third will become mulch), so I kind of need ot figure out what options are available to Belak when they come back....

;) It depends on what your players would most enjoy, but I'd suggest giving them a chance to rescue their commrades. Afterall, it probably takes a while for the gulthias tree to completely tranform someone into a supplicant.
 

Re: Re: PC's lost in Sunless Citadel-advice requested!

Grundle said:
Durrn and Grenl weren't part of the original encounter. Adding them significantly increased the EL of the final encounter.

I also thought Belak's original spell selection was pretty lame, but changing both he and Sharwyn to all combat oriented spells also increases the encounter EL.

Correct. Had the PC's actually managed to defeat the group, I was planning on a 20% increase in XP due to the more difficult fight.


Were any twig blights also part of the encounter?


No. They had been taken down (along with the goblins in the room) on a prior attack by the PC's.



Sleep and color spray can be devistating to a low-level party. How many failed their saves on one of these?


None failed against sleep, and only one (dwarven cleric) failed agains the color spray....though that did hurt the party tremendously. She was out for 7 rounds.


:( Now Granted your group had 6 PCs not 4. But the group was skewed heavily towards combat with only one magic user (cleric) and no wizard/sorcereror.

Agreed. And despite my hints that going back to town to restock wouldn't be the worst thing they could do (to get healing potions from the local cleric, alchemists fire, etc...) they didn't go back...mostly due to the paladins' player.

Afterall, it probably takes a while for the gulthias tree to completely tranform someone into a supplicant.

24 hours. After that....they're supplicants.
 

[ CONTAINS SUNLESS CITADEL SPOILERS ]

> The surviving characters have made it clear to me that
> they plan on going back...

So, which characters survived, and will the "dead" players be rolling up new characters as well? I'm not sure this is a good idea, since the party failed against Belak once. Especially if they didnt kill off any of the current crop of suplicants/monstrous humaniods, it sounds like a disaster brewing to go in again.

One thing that I always wondered; you'd think that the Druids Council that Belak presented his "findings" to would be more interested in his current activities. This could be a good way to introduce a higher level Druid who can help balance what is going to be a rough fight. An NPC Druid can also provide a little wisdom to help keep the party from being too hasty. Obviously, if the party saw Sherowyn and Sir Bradford in their current state, they have the clues to put 2+2 together. The just need some time and perhaps a gentle nudge.

edit:
XP: I dont think the supplicants would gain XP. I think of them as being like Zombies; incapable of learning anymore.
 
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Gizzard said:
So, which characters survived, and will the "dead" players be rolling up new characters as well? I'm not sure this is a good idea, since the party failed against Belak once. Especially if they didnt kill off any of the current crop of suplicants/monstrous humaniods, it sounds like a disaster brewing to go in again.


The survivors were the monk and the cleric. The other players are planning on creating new characters (at least one of which is planning on going with at least some arcane spellcaster levels).

I think the PC's can do it, if they pay attention this time, and get some preparations. Of course, they're going to be a bit surprised as well, since Belak didn't use his wand at all in the last fight....

Still, the only opponents still living in the citadel are the kobolds, Belak, Sharwyn, Braford, two other supplicants, and some thoqqa.



One thing that I always wondered; you'd think that the Druids Council that Belak presented his "findings" to would be more interested in his current activities. This could be a good way to


I was thinking that; if anyone mentions that they want to play a druid, I was thinking of giving them a little bit of an edge of some kind...

XP: I dont think the supplicants would gain XP. I think of them as being like Zombies; incapable of learning anymore.

That's kind of what I was thinking...
[edit: fixing quote tags]
 
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I don't remember as we played it when it first came out, but isn't there a way for the supplicants to be unsupplicated, i.e., after a certain thing is killed? I think it is somewhere in the end notes...My party was up to 5th level when they got there, so I buffed up everything, made the wand bigger, and so on. They almost got killed, some of the party even surrendered, but the stubornness of one player in the end saved them...
 

Oracular Vision said:
I don't remember as we played it when it first came out, but isn't there a way for the supplicants to be unsupplicated, i.e., after a certain thing is killed? I think it is somewhere in the end notes...My party was up to 5th level when they got there, so I buffed up everything, made the wand bigger, and so on. They almost got killed, some of the party even surrendered, but the stubornness of one player in the end saved them...

Nope. From the sidebar (TSCp29):
The heart of a supplicant is totally corrupt, and supplicants are unredeemable. They serve the tree, or any who shepherd it (Belak, in this instance). If the Gulthias Tree is destroyed, all supplicants perish with it.

I'd allow a wish or miracle to do it....but I don't give out that kind of magic to 2nd level characters often.
 

Here are my rapid and somewhat disorganized thoughts:

1) No XP for the supplicants IMO.
2) The Druid Council angle is one our group discussed after the adventure was complete, because one of our party members is a druid. It irked him to imagine the Council just foregtting about Belak given his track record. Anyway, this definitely provides an opportunity for one of your players to acquire a readymade background and adventuring motivation...or an obvious means of inserting an NPC into the mix as Gizzard suggests.
3) I think you made the final encounter a bit too difficult by including Durnn and Grenl, although I understand why you might have done so. Substituting spells is fine, but don't go overboard and choose spells which might not be appropriate for villains and NPCs, or that are strictly combat options.
4) Regardless of the rules listed for the supplication process, you could alter the time line and provide your players a chance -- no matter how small -- to reclaim the bodies of their fallen comrades. However, you know far better than any of us here whether or not the PCs got what they deserved, or if you made the encounter overly difficult ;).
 

Quickbeam said:
Here are my rapid and somewhat disorganized thoughts:

1) No XP for the supplicants IMO.


Woohoo. Two votes for no XP. :D


2) The Druid Council angle is one our group discussed after the adventure was complete, because one of our party members is a druid. It irked him to imagine the Council just foregtting about Belak given his track record. Anyway, this definitely provides an


It does seem a bit odd, doesn't it?


3) I think you made the final encounter a bit too difficult by including Durnn and Grenl, although I understand why you might have done so. Substituting spells is fine, but don't go overboard and choose spells which might not be appropriate for villains and NPCs, or that are strictly combat options.

Well, given that they WERE aware that there were people coming, switching to spells that were a bit more combat effective/oriented made sense to me. They knew the numbers of the attackers, and that they didn't have any animals with them, so the charm animal spell was an easy drop as was animal friendship, and given that he has that wand, Entangle made no sense, either. I almost kept the flaming sphere and heat metal spells, but went for ones that were really probably safer for the PC's (well, summon swarm would have been safer had the paladin not dropped unconsious and no one pulled him out of danger....)

I don't know why any first level wizard who has access to color spray or sleep would really bother with a magic missile spell. Third level, sure, or maybe even second level, where they have another spell available, but first level? Shouldn't even be a consideration, IMO.


4) Regardless of the rules listed for the supplication process, you could alter the time line and provide your players a chance -- no matter how small -- to reclaim the bodies of their fallen comrades. However, you know far better than any of us here whether or not the PCs got what they deserved, or if you made the encounter overly difficult ;).

True, I could...but when the players are camping out in the hallway (yes, hallway) I don't know that they should get their original characters back.

OTOH, one of the characters can't be made into a supplicant, so I might check with the players and see if someone really wants there character back-I know at least one of them DOESN'T want to continue with their character, so that might make it easier....
 

[ STILL CONTAINS SUNLESS CITADEL SPOILERS]

> The heart of a supplicant is totally corrupt, and supplicants
> are unredeemable.

Although, after the adventure, we (the players) did discuss theoretically what would happen if you fed a supplicant the "red fruit of healing". :-) If you think of supplicancy as being an infected state, like lycanthropy, then we figured that it could be cured by similar means. We thought it pleasingly symmetrical that a supplicant might only be cured by the fruit of the tree which had corrupted him.

This idea opposes what it says in the sidebar, but I actually like it better. It was a big bummer to have Sir Bradford roll over and die when our party chopped down the tree (especially after all the effort we went through not to kill him in the final encounter!). I'd have liked a way to save him.
 

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