PCs vs the 15' wall, a D&D Edition retrospective

[Celebrim]

There's no AoOs in 1e...

While it is true that there are no things called AoO in 1e, there are rules scattered all over the place that act very much like AoOs. The one that comes most immediately to mind, is that if you attempt to flee from melee, your opponent is entitled to a free attack (on your back no less) before you disengage.

As for how I mostly see situations like this dealt with, the answer is generally:

All Editions) The PC's use their vastly superior ranged weapon attacks to pick off the Kobolds from atop the wall. This could include any of the following:

a) Just send a fireball to explode on the other side of the battlements, killing everything. Alternately, particularly at lower levels, they just cast sleep, suppressing all the kobolds with their pitiful 1/2 HD.
b) Since the Kobolds only hit my AC on a 20, and I have 18 DEX and weapon specialization in the longbow, I can easily snipe dozens of kobolds while taking no or trivial damage in response.
c) We cast something like dancing lights or lights on the battlement. Then we retreat outside of the range of the kobolds infravision/darkvision, which is probably ruined by the lights anyway, and extinguish our light sources (covering a hooded lantern, for example). At this point, we are completely invisible to the kobolds, but they are completely visible to us.

Once the defenders on the wall are completely suppressed, you send some of the party forward to ascend the wall in whatever their preferred manner is - climb skill, extraordinary jumping ability, spider climb, levitation, grappling hook, etc. Once one is up, they provide a method of entry for the rest of the party.

Any description that begins with some variation on "They close with the wall..." seems wrong to me. Rarely is a defensive position anything but a death trap for monsters, and PC's would I think rightfully expect me to salt the ground in front of the wall with pit traps.

 

[dagger]

The OP also implies that 1e/2e does not have climbing, jumping, and various other rules to handle getting to the TOP of the wall.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The OP also implies that 1e/2e does not have climbing, jumping, and various other rules to handle getting to the TOP of the wall.

At minimum, even in 1e, the Thief can Climb Walls and the Magic-User Spider Climb and everyone seems to be assumed able to climb ropes...

... so, Sleep the Kobolds (4-16 of em, anyway), the Thief Climbs the Wall (~85%, possibly falling hilariously 10' to his death) slits their little throats (possibly gets all the xp as a result, some DMs were funny that way), and lowers a rope for everyone else...

 

[RedSiegfried]

While it is true that there are no things called AoO in 1e, there are rules scattered all over the place that act very much like AoOs. The one that comes most immediately to mind, is that if you attempt to flee from melee, your opponent is entitled to a free attack (on your back no less) before you disengage.

Somewhat OT, but IIRC, even OD&D and/or BECMI had that rule. I remember being surprised by that when I reread one of the older rulesets last year. I don't ever remember that we used it back in the day, though, because we didn't really think through the tactical positioning that much, nor did we think through retreating from a fight that much.

 

[dagger]

At minimum, even in 1e, the Thief can Climb Walls and the Magic-User Spider Climb and everyone seems to be assumed able to climb ropes...

... so, Sleep the Kobolds (4-16 of em, anyway), the Thief Climbs the Wall (~85%, possibly falling hilariously 10' to his death) slits their little throats (possibly gets all the xp as a result, some DMs were funny that way), and lowers a rope for everyone else...

Yep, thats why I tried to lay out the various ways to get up the wall in my post earlier in the thread.

 

[dagger]

Somewhat OT, but IIRC, even OD&D and/or BECMI had that rule. I remember being surprised by that when I reread one of the older rulesets last year. I don't ever remember that we used it back in the day, though, because we didn't really think through the tactical positioning that much, nor did we think through retreating from a fight that much.

Yes we have always used that rule

 

[Greenfield]

All the time. As well as in the real world:

View attachment 77874

Sorry I must have misread, seeing "wall" where the OP said "cliff".

All sarcasm aside, we've had more than a few debates on what counts as "worked stone".

Does stacking two or more natural rocks together make them "worked"? Obviously cutting or shaping them counts, but there are a lot of walls in the world that are made of stones taken straight from the field and stacked together. Not even quarried.

Both Ireland and New England farms are often said to grow a new crop of rocks each year, and both regions feature fences made of these. The individual stones aren't "worked", in that they aren't cut or shaped, yet the stone wall that results is definitely the result of a lot of work.

Some have suggested that blasting away the "worked" surface of an excavated tunnel to reveal the raw rock beneath (Lightning Bolt can scour a 10' wide section of wall or ceiling) can make that area vulnerable to Soften Earth and Stone and Transmute Rock to Mud, both of which share that "doesn't affect worked stone" limitation.

Others look at that as just another way to work stone, using magic instead of a pick or chisel.

So my objection, while solidly based in the rules, is also in a solidly gray area.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Sorry I must have misread, seeing "wall" where the OP said "cliff".

Maybe it's just a southern thing, but "wall" around here doesn't necessarily mean a constructed fortification.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Where are the crazy pole-vaulting options? One of my players is insane.

 

[Mad_Jack]

Regardless of edition, any party over 8th level simply destroys the wall in 1d6 rounds and the kobolds die as collateral damage...