PCs with too many scrolls?

Since the treasure tables never give a scroll with more than 6 spells, I assume that's the maximum number that can be put on a scroll. Furthermore, I limit PCs to 3 spells per scroll until 7th level, then 4 spells per scroll until 14th level.

That helps a lot, because in a single day they can't create a scroll with 40 1st-level spells.

Wow, my group's the exact opposite. We ignore the whole putting multiple spells on a scroll thing entirely, and houserule it so that you can make any quantity of magic items per day -- with a limit of 1000 gp (and 40 xp and 8 hours, etc...) -- in order to encourage people to take the scroll and potion feats and use them.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

Wow, my group's the exact opposite. We ignore the whole putting multiple spells on a scroll thing entirely, and houserule it so that you can make any quantity of magic items per day -- with a limit of 1000 gp (and 40 xp and 8 hours, etc...) -- in order to encourage people to take the scroll and potion feats and use them.
I agree. You can put 50, 100, 200 spells on the same scroll if you wanted. Like arcane toilet paper. :p
I also hate the one scroll, one potion per day crap. What's the difference between making one long scroll with 5 spells on it, then cutting it into 5 separate sheets, each with one spell on it, and making 5 scrolls with one spell each? The writing disappears when you cast it anyway, so who's to say you didn't just doodle the spell in the margin of a handy book and cast it away later, as long as you spent the gold, time, and xp for it?

Hmm, maybe my next wizard will make origami scrolls.:hmm:
"monkey bat glitterdust, go!"
"wadded up explosive runes, activate!"
"half-assed attempt at a dragon with wings, make a wall of fire!"
 

Um, I'm pretty sure that WAS the purpose of the scroll creation feat.

To allow the spellcasters to use those non-combat spells without having to waste slots on them.

I wish my PCs would do this more. But unless they're getting Scribe Scroll as a bonus feat, it's rare for my PCs to take it.

Time is probably crucial. If there's not enough down time to use Scribe Scroll, then they won't. My players rarely take crafting feats and it's probably due in some part to lack of downtime.

I would like my PCs to take more utility scrolls because that would conserve slots for offensive/defensive spells, which would then enable them to go longer without the need for rest.

I don't see how scroll-overload could be happening if PCs are creating them at their caster level. They must be blowing a heck of a lot of gold that they would otherwise be spending on magic items. Unless the treasure distribution is out of whack. It's incredibly expensive to make scrolls above minimum caster level.
 

I wish I had this problem...usually my players just complain about how they don't get enough magic and are always running out of spells. I try to encourage them to scribe scrolls whenever they have the time and resources, but they either (a) don't want to "waste" a feat by taking Scribe Scroll, or (b) they don't want to "waste" gold or XP on crafting magic items.

I even created a prestige class, trying to make scribing scrolls more tempting in my campaign. It's only a 5-level class, designed to give a minor emphasis on scroll use. You're welcome to use it if you want; your players might enjoy it.

[SBLOCK=Master Scribe Prestige Class]Master Scribe
"The pen is mightier than the sword."

The Master Scribe is a character who devotes himself to the practice and study of scribing scrolls. While many spellcasters find it useful to learn the techniques needed to weave magic into paper and ink, the Master Scribe goes beyond this basic knowledge and embraces the true art behind scribing, blending paper, ink, and magic into a beautiful and perfect whole.

Master Scribes are renowned for their ability to do the amazing (or impossible) with only a quill and parchment. Even outside of the realms of magic, they are talented calligraphers and sketch artists, who possess a keen eye for detail and a love for writing. When not scribing scrolls, they often sketch beautiful drawings, compose music, or write poetry.

Master Scribes may be of any spellcasting class, although wizards find it easiest to meet the requirements. Really, the only requirement for a character to become a Master Scribe is the ability to create magical scrolls, and the desire to do it better than anyone else.

Prerequisites
The following are the prerequisites for the Master Scribe Prestige Class:
Skills: Craft (calligraphy) or Profession (scribe) (8 ranks), Decipher Script (5 ranks), Spellcraft (5 ranks)
Feat: Scribe Scroll
Special: The character must personally scribe at least 10 magical scrolls within a single month.

Class Features
The following are the class features of the Master Scribe Prestige Class:

Class Skills
The Class Skills (and the key ability for each) of the Master Scribe Prestige Class are Craft (calligraphy) (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Profession (scribe) (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Hit Dice: d4

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: The Master Scribe gains no new weapon, armor, or shield proficiencies by acquiring this prestige class.

Spells per Day: When a new Master Scribe level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class. He does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of turning undead, metamagic or item creation feats, hit points beyond those he receives from the Master Scribe prestige class, and so forth), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting. If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a Master Scribe, he must decide to which class he adds the new level for purposes of determining spells per day.

Scroll Mastery (Ex): Master Scribes are competent spellcasters, but their skills with scrolls are unmatched by even the most educated sages. The character gains a competence bonus equal to his Master Scribe level (maximum +5) to all skill checks related to magic scrolls (and spells cast from scrolls).

Read Magic (Ex): Through extensive practice, Master Scribes become completely familiar with the magical alphabet and its symbols. At 1st level, the Master Scribe gains the extraordinary ability to translate magical text as if under the effects of a permanent read magic spell.

Shorthand (Ex): By 2nd level, the Master Scribe has invented a new alphabet and learned special techniques that allow him to reduce the time needed to create scrolls. When the Master Scribe creates a scroll, the time required is reduced to 1 day, regardless of the cost of the scroll. Other costs associated with the task, such as gold and XP costs, are calculated as normal.

Quick Reader (Ex): Master Scribes read much quicker than other characters, and can evoke magic from scrolls even while preoccupied with other tasks. At 3rd level, the Master Scribe no longer provokes attacks of opportunity when using scrolls in combat.

Braille (Ex): Writing leaves subtle impressions and residues on a parchment’s surface when ink is applied. Those who spend great amounts of time handling parchments eventually learn to “read” the text merely by tracing the ink patterns with their fingertips. Beginning at 4th level, Master Scribes may read scrolls when blinded or in absolute darkness, using only their fingers to translate the writing. Using a scroll in this manner requires a full-round action, but is otherwise without penalty.

Blessed of Thoth(Ex): At 5th level, the Master Scribe has perfected the art of scribing magic onto scrolls. By combining ancient spell-weaving secrets with personal scribing techniques only he would recognize, the Master Scribe is able to boost the power of his own scrolls. The Master Scribe gains a +1 bonus to the save DC (if any) of any scroll that he uses, provided that he scribed the scroll himself.

...........Base.....Fort.....Ref.....Will
Level.....Attack....Save.....Save....Save.....Special...............................Spells per Day

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..1.........+0.......+0.......+0......+2......Scroll Mastery +1, Read Magic.........+1 level of existing class
..2.........+1.......+0.......+0......+3......Scroll Mastery +2, Shorthand..........+1 level of existing class
..3.........+1.......+1.......+1......+3......Scroll Mastery +3, Quick Reader.......+1 level of existing class
..4.........+2.......+1.......+1......+4......Scroll Mastery +4, Braille............+1 level of existing class
..5.........+2.......+1.......+1......+4......Scroll Mastery +5, Blessed of Thoth...+1 level of existing class
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[/SBLOCK]
 
Last edited:

That's not a bad prestige class. I'd suggest, though, that you drop the first level of spellcasting improvement and merge Blessed of Thoth with Scroll Mastery. This leaves you needing something suitably nice needed for 5th level. Perhaps being able to activate a scroll in a Silenced area? Epic campaigns might allow such a character to scribe an Epic scroll.
 

No, it's not completely wrong. At the very least, save DC is not attached to cost all. As for the DC of a grease scroll, how do you think it's determined? It is not DC 11, it is DC of 10 +level +casting stat mod, which just happens to be a total of 11. Because DC doesn't factor into the price, setting it is arbitrary, so WotC used the minimum required. It's very reasonable. Until the players make their own scrolls. Then it becomes patently ridiculous that the wizard can't use his full int score for the item. Not even like caster level, where he can choose to use more than the minimum for a cost, but he doesn't even have the option, he has to cut back.

You can of course house-rule it however you like, but the rules are quite clear on this point:

Saving Throws Against Magic Item Powers

Magic items produce spells or spell-like effects. For a saving throw against a spell or spell-like effect from a magic item, the DC is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability modifier of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of spell.

The creator's stats are irrelevant. No matter how smart you are, your scrolls of grease will always have a save DC of 11.
 

How are they logistically rationalizing the scroll organization?

Can they really take less than 20 minutes to go through all their scrolls to find the right one for the given situation?
 

Put me in the "my group doesn't have this problem" category. In my last campaign I tried numerous times to get the casters to use scrolls but I don't think they made any. This was in a campaign that ran from 3rd level to 10th and had plenty of downtime if they wanted to use it.

One of the players was actively against writing scrolls, saying that it used up XP. Even when I pointed out how minimal the XP cost was he was still against it. He played a Sorcerer who took Knock as one of his known spells as there "weren't any other good 2nd level spells to take".

Knock is what I would consider almost the poster child for spells that you should have on a scroll (rather than memorized).

Olaf the Stout
 

That's not a bad prestige class. I'd suggest, though, that you drop the first level of spellcasting improvement and merge Blessed of Thoth with Scroll Mastery. This leaves you needing something suitably nice needed for 5th level. Perhaps being able to activate a scroll in a Silenced area? Epic campaigns might allow such a character to scribe an Epic scroll.
Well, I wanted this prestige class to give a minor emphasis on scroll use, but your idea would be pretty cool too. I would be careful with that bonus to the save DC, though, especially when you are already removing the two biggest problems with using scrolls in combat (darkness and attacks of opportunity.)

If you want to use the prestige class, feel free to tweak and modify it all you want. It's been in play with my gaming group for about a year now.
 

How are they logistically rationalizing the scroll organization?

Can they really take less than 20 minutes to go through all their scrolls to find the right one for the given situation?

I'm not in his game but for my PC wizard I use a Heward's Handy Haversack. 2,000 gp for a great item. See the link in my signature for Voadam the Green Wizard.

I dislike creating scrolls as a PC because they cost money and xp. I dislike using scrolls because they are one shots and then gone. Even though I understand the utility of making and using them, it goes against the grain for me and my playstyle preferences.

Same issue but less so for wands. I'm much more comfortable using a wand of whatever when appropriate then a scroll.
 

Remove ads

Top